Life Conversations with a Twist
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Life Conversations with a Twist
From Self-Doubt to Self-Mastery: The Counterintuitive Hack That Changes Everything with Amy Chambers
“Self-fulfilling prophecies are real things. It's not going to happen for the person who says it's not going to happen. But if you convince yourself that you’re going to make this happen, you'll achieve whatever it is. Your brain will look for ways to prove you right.” —Amy Chambers
The difference between who you are and who you want to be begins with a single moment of radical self-belief. And that moment often arrives not when you feel strongest, but when you're most vulnerable—when you're willing to admit you don't have all the answers and are ready to embrace the discomfort of growth.
Amy Chambers is a transformational coach, author, and ultra-marathon runner who pivoted from a 21-year career in financial services to walk the path of personal development. With two bestselling books on leadership and personal growth, she's dedicated her life to helping individuals break through mental barriers and create extraordinary lives.
Tune in as Heather and Amy explore how embracing discomfort, challenging limiting beliefs, and taking radical responsibility can transform your career, relationships, and inner landscape, as well as the power of personal accountability, leadership strategies, and the transformative journey of self-discovery.
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Episode Highlights:
01:06 From Finance to Coaching
05:51 Leadership Decoded: 7 Virtues of Exceptional Leaders
08:37 Leadership Beyond Titles
14:10 The Ownership Principle
19:01 Rock Bottom Transformation
25:47 Authoring Change
33:42 The Ultimate Life Hack: Self-Belief
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💲Use discount code and get 15% off: habits15
💲Use discount code and get 15% off: virtues15
Connect with Amy:
Amy Chambers is an Executive Coach, Leadership Consultant, and Motivational Speaker with over 21 years in financial services and 15 years of leadership experience. As former COO of SkyOne Federal Credit Union, she played a key role in its growth. She's the bestselling author of 7 V.I.R.T.U.E.S. of Exceptional Leaders and 6 H.A.B.I.T.S. of Powerful People, offering practical strategies for leadership and personal development.
With degrees from the University of Notre Dame and an MBA from USC, Amy combines academic insight with real-world expertise. She’s also an active community leader and passionate athlete, having completed over 230 half-marathons and 12 full marathons. Based in Long Beach, CA, Amy helps individuals and organizations achieve meaningful transformation through mindset and leadership development.
Heather Nelson: Hello, everyone. Welcome to this week's Life Conversations With a Twist. I have the honor to have Amy Chambers on here, and we just got connected. I'm already so inspired by all the work you're doing, your energy and all the things. So tell our listeners, tell a little bit about who you are, where you live, and a little bit about the work that you're doing.
Amy Chambers: I love it. Thanks so much. I live in Long Beach, California. I was from Buffalo, New York originally, so a very big difference from where I was born and grew up to where I live today. I spent 21 years in financial services, and left at the end of 2021 to become a coach and a consultant. I've written two books since then. My first book was on leadership, the second book on happiness, joy and personal growth. And today, I continue to write. And I'm a runner, it is probably another big fun fact about me. I just finished my 255th and a half marathon this past weekend to have a goal to run in all 50 states. And ran in New Hampshire this past weekend, state 32. So running is what takes up my free time.
Heather Nelson: Oh, my gosh. I did see that. And I was like, oh my gosh, I've done one half marathon, and that felt like a huge undertaking. And so I can't even imagine, you said 255?
Amy Chambers: Yeah, that was Sunday. It was 255.
Heather Nelson: You were always a runner, like even growing up when you were little?
Amy Chambers: I was not. The book I'm working on now, the working title for it is, couldn't run a mile. And about 10 years ago, I literally couldn't run a mile. I couldn't even make it to the end of the block without stopping. And I had a boss at that time that was constantly preaching about how we can do hard things. Struggle is a good thing. You can learn things that you never did before. We can change anything about ourselves, and I used running as the test project for that. I was very curious to know how true that is. It all sounded good, but I just didn't quite believe it. And I slowly trained myself to walk several miles, then jog several miles, then run several miles. And at some point, I did a 5k, and it was this phenomenal feeling. I felt very accomplished, and I set my sights on, what about a half marathon? And slowly, with practice and effort, and a really good relationship with myself, it's not always going to feel great. You're going to have some bad days, but that's all right. I did get to that first half marathon, and I was hooked. It was this addictive thing. Everyone in the running community was very positive and energetic, and really supportive of one another. And they all believed in themselves that they're capable. So I got pretty obsessed with it, and from 10 years ago, I couldn't run a mile. I'm now closing in on 15,000 miles of running, so I'm gonna write a book about it.
Heather Nelson: So cool. I would love to read that, because I think that's so inspiring. I know it was one of those things. I was never a runner either, and then I was like, I'm gonna try it. Like, why not? We can do hard things. And I did not run it straight, like I had it. I ran five minutes, walked a minute, and that was my pace. And then my kids were at the end. It was definitely one of those huge accomplishments. I haven't done it since, but it's definitely on the bucket list to do it again. So I couldn't imagine doing that much though. It's wild. Good for you.
Amy Chambers: I love what you said about you running five, and you walked one. I think so many people don't start because they're ashamed of the walking, and they feel like they need to run it the whole way through. There's tons of people walking any distance, and it's this grace where you allow yourself to just do as much as you can. And then you take that break, rest, and recover. And when you feel like I can jog or run a little again, I do. I think if people knew that that was acceptable, they're not going to throw you off the course for that. A lot more people would try it. Some people just walk them from the start to the finish, and then they walk the whole thing. And I think it's really impressive, and it's different than just being on the couch or saying, I can't. What you said is, I'll just try. I wish more people knew that. But yeah, no shame at all. And having to walk at times or again, walk the entire course.
Heather Nelson: It's something about being around everybody's like, their energy, it totally excites you, and keeps you motivated. There's just this really cool energy that happens. And I think that's another thing that people don't know about until they actually do it, and that is very motivating. Have you done a full marathon?
Amy Chambers: I've done 12. And the reason for the differential is that the full is a different beast. I find it really challenging, and the training process for 26 miles is way more intensive for the average person than for the 13. It's not just double the distance. It's that mile 20 or 22, your body really does start breaking down. I haven't enjoyed it as much, but I've done 12 of them. I was very proud when I finished my first full marathon. Came through the finish line. The photos are ugly crying tears. I was really surprised and impressed with myself. I thought to myself as I was nearing that finish line and hearing the cattle bells like, oh, my gosh, I'm actually going to do this. And it was at that moment that I did agree with my boss. We can really do anything we set our minds to. It just all comes down to whether or not we believe in, and we're willing to try. But yeah, it's a real breakdown on the body. So 12 folds. I do plan to do more, but it's become a one or two a year thing, whereas the half sits. 25 of them a year is half the distance. For me, it's perfect.
Heather Nelson: I could never do a full. I put that out there. You said your background, your career started in finances. What kind of work did you do? Where has this whole leadership kind of come into your life?
Amy Chambers: I started as a teller at the bank. I did that job all through college, then joined a leadership development program. Spent a few years working in the branch, and became a branch manager. Was a branch manager for several years, and then became a district manager. And did that job for a lot of years where I had 15 or so branches. I saw a lot of bad leadership throughout these time periods, and it became really important to me to lead differently. And I know the names of all of my 250 people out in my branches. Make sure that they were getting coaching and training, and we were investing in them. Make sure they felt appreciated and acknowledged, and rewarded and recognized, and we knew what they wanted to do next, and why they were there. Communication every day, we're not just trying to get these numbers. We're actually trying to change these customers' lives.
Our advice helps them be better financially, which allows them to do the things they want to do. It's just that important. And over time, I learned with great leadership. You can get people excited. They are engaged, they're loyal, they feel like work is fun, and it became my life's work. And I became obsessive over like, what are the conditions under which people feel that way? I finished my career as a COO. I was proud of that, but I made it to a chief role. I kind of feel that I had done what I needed to do in the financial space. I realized my passion was about coaching and consulting, and I'm really helping individuals move their lives forward. And by the time I was a COO, I was writing board reports and sitting in it, steering committee meetings. I audit compliance risk stuff. I'd kind of gotten away from the employees, the coaching and the teaching, and so I decided to branch out and start something new. But it was a great 20 years. And most of it was focused on becoming a better leader, and that's really where the framework for the first book. I was in this financial services career, and that's where I tested all these different concepts. And then I said, it's the seven things. You have these seven things. You do them together. You've got great leadership.
Heather Nelson: Can you talk about what those seven steps are? Dive in because we want people to read your book. But I'm curious, what are the seven key components to it?
Amy Chambers: Yeah. I'll just tell you. So the book is called The 7 VIRTUES of Leadership. Virtues as an acronym. So I'll just quickly rattle off the seven letters. V is for Vision. I is for Involve. R is for Routines. T is for Talk. U is for Understand. E is for Encourage. And S is for Showcase. And those are the chapters, lots of practices, processes, actionable steps of what you do in each of these things, and what I mean by them. But that's what virtues actually stand for.
Heather Nelson: Oh, I love that. A lot of the leaders that you're working with, is it like a certain industry that you're working with? Or is it leadership all over the board?
Amy Chambers: It's all over the board. And I think what's cool about this framework that I developed, and just my experience in watching people lead and all sorts of different situations, whether it's a community service organization, whether it's in academia, healthcare, the principles are the same. Any business got people as the end customer, or the employees you're working with, we're all human. We want a lot of the same things. E is a really important one. I think we want to be encouraged, acknowledged. We want to be seen. We want to be noticed. We want to be honored for our individual strengths. Whether you're in it, or you're in a classroom, or you're in financial services, people have that need. And so it works no matter what line of business.
One of my other favorite ones is the I for Involve. When we tell people what to do and we just give them directions, and we bark orders, something shuts down, they lose their creative juice. They don't necessarily feel like they're capable or competent, or intelligent. But when we turn the keys to the castle over to them and say, what do you think? I trust you to make this decision. I'm not going to tell you what to do. I'm going to give you some tools and training so you can make great decisions, but I'm going to let you decide what the next step in this project or this process should be. People kind of come alive and they get really motivated to find their own solutions and self discover. Again, that's across the board that works in any industry. A lot of my clients, honestly, are in the financial services space because I knew them in past lives. I worked for six different companies during my 21 years, and some of my clients are former direct reports of mine. They saw what I was going to do and they kind of came to me, but they've referred me to other people, and then I found other people that are not in the financial services space. I've got some tech, which is really fun for me because it's a very different skill set than my own, and I don't know much about it. And what I've learned from coaching, some engineering and some IT professionals is it just doesn't matter. The core concepts of, how do we get things done? How do we get results? It's not industry specific at all. It's very universal. So it's a mix.
Heather Nelson: I definitely want to read that. Because I do consulting as well, but not on the leadership side. But I know there's so many that could totally benefit from that. Because even just being involved in projects where our new leaders come in and embracing these things, I'm like, this is where the team's going to succeed. This is where the business is going to succeed. If you're on the same playing field with the rest of the team, I feel so much magic can happen.
Amy Chambers: Oh, my gosh, so true. I think one of the biggest pieces of advice I could give to a young leader is that it's not about you, it's about them. I think so often, we feel like I'm the manager because I know all the stuff, and I've got all the answers. That's really not what managers and leaders are there for. They're actually there to help the people around them have all the answers and know all the things. And so really, instead of answering the questions, you're kind of there to ask the questions and help people find their own answers. But I think so often, it's about what I bring to the table and what I can show people. Actually, the talent you can unleash to them. And then it doesn't work with you thinking of yourself at the top and everyone underneath you. You're all there together, and it's that team approach. The magic happens when we see that and we say, we're going to move forward as a group. And I made a lot of mistakes when I was a young leader, and so a lot of the book is about my own failures and missteps. And then what I found out is doing it wrong so often. But yeah, I love what you said about the magic and the team, and everybody being together. I wish more people had the courage to say, it's not me, it's them.
Heather Nelson: There are so many fantastic leaders out there right now who's like, who's your favorite leader? Or somebody that is in the public eye that they're doing it right.
Amy Chambers: Oh, I love that. I think the people that I get excited about most are the people that are teaching leadership to others. I don't know if any of these names will resonate with you, but people like Brene Brown, Tony Robbins, Mel Robbins, Jenna Kutcher, Brendon Burchard, Cy Wakeman. A lot of these individuals are on stage. They're doing TED talks, but they also offer workshops and classes, and they're writing books and putting together masterminds to help others lead. Well, they're just wanting to teach leadership, but they're also teaching concepts around personal accountability and personal responsibility. And ultimately saying, it doesn't matter how you started in life or what the heck has happened to you, your greatness comes down to the decisions and the choices you make every day. And you don't have to feel a certain way. Your choices are things. You decide that you don't have to be angry or sad because of how something was unfair or how you got mistreated. You get to step up, wake up and ride in life every day. I wish the whole world knew that, because I think we'd be in a different place.
I'm attracted to these influencers, for lack of a better word, that are teaching people to live empowered lives. Dave Ramsey is another great example. I always think of him as the money guy, like I don't have that. Be responsible. I just listened to an hour and a half podcast between him and Chris Williamson this morning, and I was blown away. I hadn't really heard Dave Ramsey speak on things that weren't money related. And I was like, I gotta hear this a second time. This is fantastic. And it was, don't be a victim. Don't think about your past circumstances. If it's something you can't control, it doesn't belong in your mind. The successful people with joy have a penchant for action. They may not feel like doing something, and that's when they know they need to act most. And every sentence he said, I was like, yes, yes, yes. And so I get really excited about people that are trying to teach leadership, and help people live better lives.
Heather Nelson: I love all of those people you said. They are all the people that I listen to and follow as well, so I'm totally on board with that. You'll have to send me that episode, because I know a lot of people who I could send that to like, can we stop playing the victim? Can we just take ownership right after this show? I'm like, just own your life. You cannot keep the past influencing how you make decisions now. You are literally in the driver's seat of your life. So take the reins of that and move on. So yes, I'm all for that, and I agree with you. I wish more people had the mindset to want to do more personal development, or to follow and be encouraged by people like that. So yeah, I agree. Can everyone just tune in please?
Amy Chambers: I think something really powerful happens when we take ownership. You use the word ownership, I love that word. It's hard in the short term to take ownership. Doesn't always feel good. Sometimes you have to say it's my fault, when it would be way easier to just point the finger and blame. Or you have to identify actions you're going to take when you don't feel like you should have to, why can't that other department or my spouse be the one to fix this? But when we actually take ownership, something really awesome happens. We are focused on the things we can control, and we actually feel better when we're focused on things we can control. I think we feel sad, anxious and fearful when we're focused on the things out of our control. And when we take ownership, it's kind of like saying it's up to me. I have the ability to affect and change what I want to see. And I think people that know that and believe that get what they want. And so it's again, it's hard in the short term, but it leads us to a life that we want where I think we're clear. We know happiness comes from within, and then we basically build a life where we've got more free time to travel, or do the things we want, or hang out with our kids, and we don't feel like we're a slave to the system. And so ownership. It's hard when you start, but if you practice it, if you do what is easy, your life is hard. If you do what is hard, your life is easy. Ownership is kind of hard, but it leads to a better, in some ways, easier life in the long term. So yeah, can everybody just take some ownership? I think that's a great quote that you said.
Heather Nelson: I love that so much. So you do a lot of leadership coaching, but you also do life coaching. Is this with the same client? Or do you offer two different types of things? Talk to me about the different types of coaching that you do, because I can definitely see where life coaching comes in just based on everything you just told me.
Amy Chambers: It's really funny. I'm just going to be very transparent and vulnerable with you and tell you that I had a really hard time branding myself and knowing what to call myself. Because unlike a lot of other coaches, I find it hard to distinguish between leadership careers, executive coaching and life coaching, mindset coaching and individual coaching. It's all the same thing. I think how we do one thing is often how we do everything. And so a lot of my clients hire me for a specific reason. I have definitely been hired for these distinct reasons. Someone's like, I want to lose weight. I need to fix my relationship, or try to save my marriage.Or I want to spend time and figure out, do I want to stay married? But I need to make more money. I'm struggling to get results. I want to build a better business. And in every situation, whatever we start talking about, we end up talking about the other thing. And so my business clients and executive clients have said, I didn't realize I was also hiring a therapist, or I didn't realize I was going to get feedback on my marriage. But somehow, we just end up talking about that a lot. It came up, and I didn't know that. I like it, but that was not what I expected six months or a year ago.
And then my individual people were like, I started out just wanting to get into better shape, or talk about my fitness, or my interpersonal relationships. But start asking them, where do you see yourself in 10 or 15 years? We got to work backwards like, where do you really want to end up? And when it tumbles out that they're not in love with their job, and it just pays the bills, it's okay. I can't help but point out like, you could probably do whatever it is that you wanted. And if you identify something you're passionate about and your ideal state, there's no reason why we shouldn't be working towards that. And so they sometimes start showing up and say. Actually, I realized I did have a question in that town hall. Or that I did have the courage to push back on my boss. Or I think I do deserve more, just like you've made me realize in my personal life. So I think in general, I call myself a success strategist or a mindset mentor. But there's a lot of overlap in terms of business and professional success, and our personal success in general. If the person is killing it in one area, they're usually doing really well in the other. And if we're struggling in one area, we kind of struggle all over. I'm still trying to figure out how to phrase that. The coach that talks about everything, but that's probably the best description and examples of the things I talk about with people.
Heather Nelson: It's so true. I'm totally in the same boat as you. I do a lot of business development like consulting on, how do you grow your business? But because I do all of this personal development work and podcasting, I strive to live the best life that I can. I do tend to get clients that are in both boats, and so I'm totally with you. When you can see them struggling in one area, you can coach them through that, but you were hired to do something else. So it is interesting how to marry two. I'm totally in the same boat of like, where do I sit?
Amy Chambers: Yeah. I do have this nagging sensation that I need to define it and get a niche market, or be able to explain it to people. But then when I really think about the work, and ultimately, it's about saying to anybody, what is it that you want out of life? Where do you really want to be? And then the principles that are going to take you there, it's usually kind of some of the stuff we've talked about. A mindset of ownership, accountability and responsibility, and it starts and ends with me. And there's always more I can do. And if I believe it and I see it in my mind, I can make it happen. But I gotta be taking action and just figuring out what's the next step. Those things, again, are true of work. They're true of personal and home life. They're true of our relationships with our friends. It's like, how are we not gonna affect every area of your life by talking about you becoming that kind of person? And so yeah, it's where people start, and what they say. I just want help with this one thing. There's no way it doesn't bleed over into making those same decisions on the weekends that they were going to make on a Tuesday afternoon. And so yeah, I guess I'm starting to ditch the idea of like, I gotta define it, and I gotta work with this niche. It's really not how the work actually looks, and so why do I need to define it? So yeah, strategist, mindset, mentor.
Heather Nelson: I like the mentor mindset, I think that's cool. And which leads me to ask you, have you always had this type of mindset? Was there a certain part in your life where you're like, okay, I need to take ownership of my life and really lean into it, educate and empower myself.
Amy Chambers: Yeah. You're very perceptive and insightful. I chuckled the second you started asking the question because I'm like, yeah, she knows what to ask. No, I was not always this way. And probably the reason I feel so strongly about these concepts now is, it was really about 10 years ago that I first discovered them at the exact same time I started running. And what happened is I went through a breakup. To me, I felt like it was abrupt, and I was blindsided. My partner would say, that's not true. He was leaving clues for a while or talking about, hey, maybe this isn't working out. I was like, I just want to say it. I was probably too narcissistic and self centered to hear it. I look back now and I think, yeah, the signs were there, the information was there. But I was ignoring it. I was avoiding it. But when he just basically left, which again, felt abrupt to me, but probably was a long time coming. I was devastated. I was so heartbroken. And for months, I was in the house alone, crying, not wanting to go out and see friends because we kind of had a shared set of friends, and I very much isolated myself.
And I remember being a few months into that and sitting home alone on a Saturday night, maybe I wasn't making the best decision. I was taking a bath in the dark. What a depressing environment I had put myself into. I'm sitting in the bathtub in the dark on a Saturday night alone, crying, just sobbing. And I remember thinking to myself as I just sat there for a long period of time, like a couple hours unable to stop crying. Something has to change. Yeah, I gotta do something different. He is not coming back. And all of my begging, pleading and emailing, texting about, let's just meet up and talk about it. Maybe give it another go. It's not working. I got a therapist who's amazing. I'm still spending time with her today. I asked the boss, it's really my boss's boss at that time to mentor me. He was the person that was like, we can do hard things. Struggle is good. This is a learning opportunity. You get to choose how you feel about it. And I'm like, ah, this all sounds like crap, but I'll go try it. Actually, it was at that time that I felt so depressed. I was having a hard time going to the gym and keeping up with my workouts. I'd always work out like an elliptical, stationary bike, that kind of thing. I've never been a runner, but I decided that there would be something different about getting some vitamin D and being out in the elements.
And so I was going on these long walks. And then again, walking, turning to jogging. Jogging, turn to running. But before this happened, I think I expected things to be easy. I thought life would just be handed to me. When things went wrong, I would get kind of unhinged. I remember having a temper, getting upset a lot. I was a perfectionist at that time. Probably still a recovering perfectionist now, but lots of people are pleased going on, then I honestly got a lot of these things from childhood. These were learned behaviors that my parents taught me, and my relationships were failing. I was doing okay at work. I was already a district manager, Regional Director. But in my interpersonal relationships, if my partner did something I didn't like, I would judge and criticize, and tell him he was wrong. And I think I was a tough person to be around. And somehow in this aftermath, I got just something felt off about it and I began, for the really the first time saying, what if this is my fault? What if I caused some of this? In the past, I'd always been like, he was a bad boyfriend. It's them. They're a head case. And for the first time, I really said that I want to take accountability and responsibility for myself. I'm going to try to become a runner. I'm going to go see a therapist. I'm going to start reading some books. I'm going to ask this to my boss's boss to mentor me, who has a wonderful marriage, have 8 kids and everything he wants. And slowly, I started bumping into these concepts of everything we've talked about accountability, the responsibility for ourselves. And how we respond to things as a choice. And I made this just a dramatic life transformation. It was really in the year of 2015 that all of this happened. Life today, post breakup versus before that, I feel like a completely different person. And so, yeah, it took a breakup, and it took me getting left and abandoned, and me to hit rock bottom to say, something has to change. It was not always this way.
Heather Nelson: Quite frankly, I feel like it always is a moment, like there is a time or something that pivotally happens in your life. But it's interesting, you said 2015 because that was the same for me. It was 2015 when I had this mind shift too of wanting and needing more. I read Rachel Hollis' book, Girl, Wash Your Face. And that was like the moment for me that changed my perception of life. But I think even when you hit a financial lull or something, there's a moment that happens and you're like, I can either continue to muddle in this space, or I can take control and change it. And so I hate that it has to take that for people to hit rock bottom for them to make the change and not see that. You can be in a space and just make the change without something traumatic happening.
Amy Chambers: Yeah. It's the pain of change versus the pain of staying the same. I think change happens when that pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change. By the way, Rachel Hollis, I read Girl, Stop Apologizing, which is sort of the sequel or the prequel of, Girl, Wash Your Face. And that book was very transformational to me in that first year when I was just reading books, at some point, at a rapid rate like more than I had ever read books since my formal education ended in college. That was on the list. And a lot of her concepts were like, these were wake up calls for me. And the first time I had heard some of them and several of her concepts live in my second book, which is all about that personal success. But you're right, it's a moment. Often it's like, the person that has the heart attack finally is motivated to start eating healthy even though friends and family for years had been like, you're maybe on the road to something bad. And it was like, ah, it's gonna be fine. It really does take, I think, this pain for us to sometimes get jolted into, okay, I gotta live differently.
And by the way, I guess I'll just give you my thoughts on it. I have figured out that our brains have different components and the subconscious part of our brain. Statistical stuff studies and research has proven again and again that it very much seeks to avoid pain. It does not want us to hurt. It doesn't want us to struggle. It's why change is so hard for us. And these were actually genetic evolutions of these days when prehistoric animals were being chased by predators. If you didn't get out of the way or move, you got eaten. And so the brain, its desire to protect us has kept us alive. But it plays tricks on us, and it sabotages us. And I think it leads us to believe that discomfort is bad. Doing hard things is bad. We should choose the path of least resistance. And so I think it's actually why it takes pain of the current reality to be, I guess the catalyst for change. Because then, we're faced with, well, this is painful too. And change would be painful. But I'm already in pain, and so I'm going to go choose the lesser pain without us having pain. It's like our brain tells us that there's no reason to change or get better. It's good enough, it's fine. And so I think actually it's not just for no reason. I think it's the brain's wiring that makes it this way. So I'm with you. I wish it wasn't this way, and it didn't take that. But I think the brain actually causes it. For a lot of people, you need to hit rock bottom to be willing to take on other pain because you're already in pain where you're at. So that's my science.
Heather Nelson: I like it, and it's actually a great reminder. It totally makes absolute sense. But dang, it sucks.
Amy Chambers: There's no way around that. Embrace the suck. It's just going to be sucky here. It sucks a lot of the time. And you said, sometimes I'm like, it kind of usually sucks. Most often, it sucks and it sucks bad. I think this stuff is really difficult. I guess it's why I am impressed by all the authors and the influences out there that are kind of saying, hey, it's supposed to be that way. It's that way for everyone. You're not abnormal. If it's sucking, it's a sign that you're probably doing what you need to grow and evolve. Don't turn your back on the suck. And so I think those are messages we need to hear. Because without normalizing it, we feel like something's wrong. But you're right. It sucks. That's a technical term that I think is perfect. It's sucky.
Heather Nelson: So true. Okay. So you have your book about the virtues of being a leader, but you also have a second book called the 6 H.A.B.I.T.S. of Powerful People. Talk about the inspiration around that book, and what could the listeners get when they're reading it? What would they take away from that?
Amy Chambers: The first book was designed for all of the moments where I saw lousy leadership make workplaces toxic. And I thought, I want to put a book out to help people do better. The second book, the motivation was me sitting there crying in the bathtub, and then realizing that I had been a major part of that relationship failing. But I also could make the choice to use that moment to create a much better life for myself. I wanted everyone else to know the same things I learned from that breakup. A lot of the things I figured out was that seeking external validation is a road to a lot of unhappiness. Comparison is the thief of joy. Trying to please other people or do what we think society expects of us is no bueno. We gotta follow our hearts, trust ourselves and believe in ourselves, or believe in our power. But also, we can get what we want by having a vision for the future and setting goals for ourselves. And really saying, I'm not just going to think about today. I am going to think about the life I want to build, and I'm going to look at it that way. I'm an architect. I get to build it, and I get to create it. And are the things I'm doing today going to lead me there? And so I guess I'll just quickly share with you, spoiler alert, the six habits similar to the virtues. It's an acronym, so I'll just tell you the letters real quick, and kind of end on that. So habits, H is for Half of Honest Humility. A is for Action. B is for the Brain. So I already kind of gave you some thoughts on that. I was to inspire ourselves. T was for Trust and Treasure ourselves. And then S was to Stay Securely Strong. And a lot of the motivation for this came from people that told me that I couldn't do things. It's like, oh, you'll never be able to do that. And the company I kept, I had a lot of friends that were gossips or traders, or I didn't know what my own personal values were. And so all of these habits really get to know thyself. Really, know thyself, and be very honest with ourselves, overcoming fear. Having the power to go for it and believe that we deserve a great life instead of settling. That was a lot I just threw at you, but all of that is found in book number two.
Heather Nelson: I love it. The last few guests I've had have all been authors, and so I literally have a stack of books. I'm like, oh, who am I going to read next? But I love it. I love all of this so much, and I can't wait. You said you want like five books, right? You have a goal to hit five?
Amy Chambers: Yeah, I do. I have thoughts for the following three. I shared that I couldn't run a mile with you. It is a running book. But really, the lessons that occurred in me, and the change in the shift from couldn't run a mile, to 15,000 miles. They're translatable and universal, and they would apply anywhere. You haven't asked me this, but I'll just share it. And this is a tough thing to talk about. The fourth book is about childhood. I do feel that my mother, who I'm sure will never see this episode, she's just not that interested in my life. I feel very confident that she has a personality disorder. Really suffers from narcissism, suffers from a different kind of PD as well. And writing about all the things I was shown and taught to believe in childhood and I basically accepted his truth, and then the unpacking and unlearning of those things, mainly, that began in that 2015 year, but still the work I'm doing today. I think a lot of people could benefit from a book like that where it was like, I basically was becoming my parents who actually don't have the life I want to have. And then it occurred to me one day that I could do differently than my parents, and I had to start making conscious choices to go in a different direction. But what we learned in childhood, it's really strong. It's really powerful. It takes a lot to overcome.
And after having been through and on that journey, I did want to write a book about the emotional and mental abuse that happened in childhood, and then how I carried that around with me through many years. But then they said, wait a minute. There's a different way, there's a better way. And so it is going to be a book that maybe doesn't make my mother in particular look the best, but I feel like it's a book that does need to be written. So yeah, I struggle with that like, am I going to write this thing while she's still alive? She's almost 80 now, but I think I'm going to write it as soon as I have the opportunity. As I'm done with book number three, that'll be the fourth book because we've come this far. The fifth book would be about things that people don't do, that are happy and successful. Lots of books about, here's what they do. I kind of want to write the flip side of, here's what they don't do. And so that's kind of the plan I have for book five.
Heather Nelson: I love them, and I will read every single one of them. I do agree with the past, unpacking the past and like that. We are raised to be this person. I literally catch myself all the time. I'm like, oh, my god, I'm acting like my mom, which is a person that I don't want to be. I'm doing a lot of women's retreats, and this is the trauma that is coming up in literally every single one of them. And so, yes, I think I wrote the book because there's not one person that probably is carrying baggage from their childhood into their real life that they don't want. I'm here for that one.
Amy Chambers: Yeah. I guess I should make a disclaimer, and I think this is true for a lot of us that have gone through some aspect of childhood trauma. Especially if we were born in the 70s, 80s, 90s, like our parents' generation. This is true of them. I think they were doing their best. I think they lacked a lot of tools and resources that we have today. I think they grew up in a time where it was not acceptable to talk about feelings. I think there was a stigma around counseling, or therapy, or mental health and emotional wellness. It was sort of like, ah, that's soft stuff. Just chin up. Don't cry. I was talking to the client yesterday about the movies inside out. They're Pixar movies. I'm not sure if you have seen them. It's kind of a great job saying, they're gonna have all the emotions. But I didn't really grow up in a household that believed that it was like, don't be sad, don't be angry. Everything should just be hunky dory all the time, and this is very common. I think a lot of our parents did as good as they could have, and as well as they would have been expected to. And they meant well, and they were just doing the best, or what they thought was the best. But we've got a lot more tools in our tool belt today, so I have worked hard not to feel resentful, or hostile, or angry about it. Just sort of say, yeah, I'm not mad, but I also don't want to become that nice. I don't want to tolerate abuse still today in my life, and I'm going to set boundaries. And if those are broken or not set, I have the right to enforce them. And so it's kind of, hey, it wasn't intentional, it wasn't malicious, but that doesn't mean that it's okay. That's a complicated aspect of it, but I don't know how your mind is. Mine, I think she truly did the very best she could with what she was working with.
Heather Nelson: For sure. And that is actually a very great reminder. Time is very different than it was back then, so I totally agree with that. It is a very good thing to think about, so thank you for normalizing. I'm inspired in so many ways. I'm happy to do that. I've been so inspired by everything that you're doing. Everyone who's listening is probably taking so many nuggets away. But if you could leave the listeners with one thing that you have learned along the path that you wish you knew or something you believe in now, what would that be?
Amy Chambers: Oh, gosh, there's so many. One that stands out, and I ascribe it to Henry Ford. But I do think it's heard. Maybe it wasn't Henry Ford that said this, but this is who I give credit for. It's this concept of whether you think you can or think you can't, either way, you're right. I feel like a lot of us subscribe to limiting beliefs, and so we look at things that people have or things we want, and we're sort of like, well, that's not for me. I could never do that. And the reality is, self fulfilling prophecies are real things. So from the moment you believe that or say that it's true, you're not going to do that. It's not going to happen for the person that says it's not going to happen. But if you really convince yourself or say, I'm going to make this happen, I will be successful. You'll achieve whatever it is. If you're willing to commit to it and say, I'm going to find a way. Your brain will then look for ways to prove you right. It will find the solutions. And I think so often, we give away all this power to the universe, or our upbringing, or our past circumstances, or walk. And at the end of the day, it's crap. It all comes down to us on what we're willing to do, and how bad we want it. So I do think that if someone's sitting in a situation, they don't like the job they have, they don't like the pay they have, they don't like what the relationship looks like, they don't like where their health and fitness is at, step one is saying, I want something more. And I believe I can achieve it. I really believe I can achieve it. And then they start saying, okay, then what needs to get done? What actions would a person do that really believes that? What would they start doing or taking? And so I think that's one of the biggest keys that unlocks our success in our life. The power of our belief, how we talk to ourselves and what we say to ourselves. So that's probably the one thing of many I would like to leave your listeners with.
Heather Nelson: I love that, it is so great. I totally believe that. I know so many women in my life right now who need to hear that, so thank you. I'm so glad that we connected. This is why I do this work, and why I have this podcast because I get to connect with women all over the world doing really freaking cool things, so thank you for being here. And thank you for sharing your story. I can't wait to read your books. So yeah, thank you for being here.
Amy Chambers: Yeah.It's an absolute pleasure to stop the shameless plug. If anyone's interested in the books, if you go to my website, the code virtues15 and habits15 takes 15% off on both books respectively. So amymchambers.com, there's a book page. And virtues15 and habits15, 15% discount with those codes. So just throw that out there, if anyone's interested. If you want to save a little money in today's economy, those codes will do it. Heather, this has been wonderful.
Heather Nelson: Yeah. I will put all that information in the show notes too. So yes, thank you, a great reminder. I definitely would love to follow and stay along your journey. I can't wait to see the next books.
Amy Chambers: Thank you. I really appreciate it.