.png)
Life Conversations with a Twist
Join me once a week for a new interview with a local, badass woman who has an amazing story to tell. Join me in conversation so you too can gain inspiration and empowerment from these stories! If you love hearing about leadership, relationships, families, motherhood and navigating hard times, then tune into my podcast and share with others. If you love what you hear, share and tag me on Instagram at @heathernelson.life. You can also visit my website at heathernelson.life.
Life Conversations with a Twist
The Night Stalker Victim Journey with Ellen Govan
“Even though it was a terrible, traumatic thing to go through, life is wonderful.” —Ellen Govan
Richard Ramirez, infamously dubbed the Night Stalker, was a notorious serial killer whose reign of terror gripped California between 1984 and 1985. Convicted of 13 murders along with numerous other violent crimes, he was sentenced to death in 1989. Ramirez's gruesome acts left an indelible mark on history, earning him a place among America's most feared criminals until his death in 2013, making him one of the most notorious criminals in American history.
A victim of the Night Stalker, Ellen Govan has overcome immense trauma to live a life of purpose and service. She is a passionate advocate for survivors of violent crimes, sharing her own story to provide hope and support to others. Through her community involvement and personal writing, Ellen continues to demonstrate remarkable resilience and a commitment to making a positive impact.
Tune in as Ellen recounts her harrowing experience of moving to San Francisco in 1984, the night of the attack, how she was able to escape the attack with the help of a heroic bystander, Bob Davis, the lasting trauma she faced, and the steps she has taken to overcome these challenges. Heather and Ellen also explore the power of human connection, the importance of community support, and Ellen's inspiring efforts to give back and help others who have experienced similar traumas.
Connect with Heather:
Episode Highlights:
01:28 Chasing Big Dreams in the Big City
05:31 The Night of the Attack
11:38 Escape From the Night Stalker
17:46 Identifying the Night Stalker
26:03 Trying to Capture the Night Stalker
31:24 Moving Forward
43:31 Closure At Last
50:00 Trauma-Response
55:56 Finding Ways to Give Back
Connect with Ellen:
Ellen Govan is a survivor and advocate who has overcome significant challenges in her life. In 1984, she was the victim of an attack by the notorious serial killer Richard Ramirez, known as the "Night Stalker." Despite this traumatic experience, Ellen has gone on to live a fulfilling life, finding love, starting a family, and dedicating herself to helping others who have experienced trauma.
Today, Ellen is actively involved in her community, participating in coastal cleanup efforts with the Mendocino Mermaids and sharing her personal stories through writing workshops. She is a passionate supporter of organizations that assist victims of violent crimes, using her own experiences to inspire and empower others. Ellen's resilience and commitment to making a positive impact serve as an inspiration to all who hear her story.
Resources:
Surviving Victims of Violent Crimes (James Alt)
Mendocino Mermaids
Writing Your Life— The Lifelong Learning Program at Santa Rosa Junior College
Heather Nelson: Welcome everyone to this week's Life Conversations With a Twist. Joining me for this conversation, this is Ellen Govan. She and I were trying to think back. One of my previous jobs was working at the Sheraton Hotel, and I had the privilege of working with her amazing husband, Bill. He's literally been one of my favorite bosses I've ever had. We had so much fun together, learned so much from him and Ellen. We're gonna hear about their story. But Ellen is actually a victim of the Night Stalker, which we just started jabbering about. But I want to dive into the whole story for people who might not know, but I just want to say thank you, and thank you for being open and willing to share the story.
Ellen Govan: Well, thank you. Thank you for having me. This is definitely a story that, in the end, I think everyone will agree that it's really an uplifting story. So let me give you a little background. I grew up in New York. And when I was 23, I graduated from a state university, or State University of New York at Stony Brook, and I decided that I was moving to California. My parents had spent their 25th wedding anniversary in San Francisco, and they raved about San Francisco. It was the best place ever. So after I graduated from work that summer, and then in September, I booked a one way trip on a Greyhound bus to San Francisco.
Heather Nelson: Typical story of what everybody talks about.
Ellen Govan: It took me three days, I think, to arrive, and I didn't know where I should stay. I'm brand new to the city, so there was this little place. It was called the Nob Hill Women's Club, I think, and it was just on the lower level, it was like around Polk, forget the cross street. But I stayed there for two weeks. And in that two week period, I found a job and an apartment, and so I was on my way to becoming a San Franciscan, and I was so excited. This was the dream. I was independent. I had my college degree, and eventually, I thought I'd end up at Berkeley studying for a Master's in Linguistics. I was a French major from Stony Brook, but I knew that I wanted to pursue something a little further. And I knew that Berkeley had a really good program for Masters in Linguistics. I had some friends that had gone and really raved about it. So at any rate, I had a very wonderful, seven or eight months, about eight months. But I was sharing this apartment on lower Knob Hill with this other woman, and things became a little bit, I don't know, a little bit strained between us so I knew I needed to find my own place, and a sublet became available in the Marina District on Chestnut Street. Because I'd been in San Francisco long enough to know that was a great neighborhood, and so I interviewed with the woman who was subletting it. She was going to move in with her boyfriend who had just moved to San Francisco, and she didn't want to give up the apartment in case things didn't work out. And so I said that that's fine with me. And so I moved in on April 1, 1984.
During the preparation for that move, I had looked into starting school in September at Berkeley in their master's program for linguistics, and then I was able to figure out, with my job and everything, moving and whatnot, and signed the lease. I had two jobs at that point. I was working for the sales office of a textile firm that sold a lot of denim to Levi Strauss, which was one of their headquarters right there. I think it was their headquarters. And then my other job was working for the San Francisco experience, which was on Pier 39. It was a multimedia extravaganza where I would dress up like Miss Coit Tower. I had a big apron that had a quiet tower on the front, and I'd walk up and down Pier 39 during the weekends, and I would try to get people to go to this multimedia theater where they could experience the 1906 earthquake. I think I found the job under Show Biz. And I was like, that's me. So very busy, very busy, and I move into the apartment, and I'm in heaven. This is exactly what I was looking for. It was a big studio, a huge bedroom area, and then a kitchen, a long hallway, and then a nice sized bathroom. And so I was just in heaven. I thought, this is it. This is where I'm going to stay. And so I was pretty busy that first week.
And then the night of April 9 after working two jobs, this was a Monday, I believe. And it's interesting, because typically, the Academy Awards are in February. Maybe March. This particular year, they were on April 9. This is 1984, and that's important because I didn't have a television. But almost everybody in the apartment building was watching the Academy Awards, including the lady that lived below me.I didn't know her, but what will happen in a few minutes? You'll understand why that was important. So I come home at 10:30, I make a quick phone call, and then I get ready for bed. And while I was about to start brushing my teeth, my bathroom door was partially closed, and I heard a creek in the floorboards of my apartment. So instead of opening the door, I moved to the side, and I looked through the opening where the hinges are for a door, and I saw a man creeping down the hallway towards the bathroom. And it was that split second reaction where I put all of my weight against the door, and I screamed so loud. I can scream. I'm a screamer. And that scream I thought would have every single person in the apartment building. Well, I was too late. He was able to get that door to fly open. He knocked me over with the door opening up. I hit my head on the sink as I was falling, and then he landed on top of me. He showed me a knife, put it to my neck, and then put it to my stomach. And then said to me, why did you have to scream like that? So I was in shock, and I'm petrified, and so I didn't say anything. And he manages to get me to stand up, and he walks with me down my hallway into the bedroom area.
At that point, he sits me down on the bed and he says, where's the money? I was a poor young person living in San Francisco, and I knew I only had $11 in my wallet, and so I managed to say, in the kitchen, in my purse. At that point, he came back, and he had the straps from my purse. He tied my hands behind my back, and he put a gag in my mouth. He had me lay flat down on the bed, on my stomach, and he leaned into me like putting his shoulder into my back saying, where's the rest of the money? And I knew I didn't have any, that was it, so I didn't answer him. I didn't say anything. The next thing I know, he goes over to the corner of this bedroom area. I had a light on in the corner. He went over and he shut it off, and then he walked back to the place where he had come into my apartment through a window that I couldn't lock because the apartment had been painted just before I moved in. And when they painted the windows, the locking mechanism was painted in an open position so it couldn't be moved. Because I tried to lock that window, and I couldn't, and so he was able to just lift the window and then come in off of the fire escape into my apartment. But I hear him go over to that window and he shuts it, and I knew he was still in my apartment. And that's when everything, all the alarms, I mean, I was petrified already. I wasn't scared. I was shaking, but I knew that it wasn't just a robbery. And I said, nope, not gonna happen. I don't even know how I got my hands loose, but I was able to turn myself around onto my back.
He came over and he's trying to keep me on the bed. I was kicking. I still had the gag in my mouth so I couldn't scream, but I was punching and kicking, doing everything I could to make noise, to keep him away from me. I do anything I can to survive. At one point, he puts his hand in my mouth, and I bite down as hard as I possibly can. I'm sure that I caused some damage to at least a couple of his fingers, and he bites me on the nose. He bites me on the bridge of my nose. And so at that point, I'm thinking, okay, I'm just gonna do anything I can. But he gets me around the neck, and I'm not able to get his hands off of my neck. I'm just desperate, but I'm thinking to myself, this is it? This is how I'm going to die? I'm not able to get his hands off of my neck, and then he let me go. I could tell that he ran to the part of my apartment where the light was in the corner, and I took that moment to jump up, run down the hallway, open up my front door where a man was standing, and I run past him sobbing and fall down into the hallway saying, he's trying to kill me. He's trying to kill me. And so the man that was standing on the other side of my door, he's looking at me like he's in shock. I'm not quite sure what's going on at that point because I'm covering my face and just sobbing hysterically. And then all of a sudden, that man comes over, he picks me up in his arms, and he brings me downstairs to another apartment, which happened to be his ex wife's apartment.
Now, I didn't know her, but he brings me in there, and he just puts me on the bed, and then he runs back out of the apartment. So the woman, she's looking at me like, what just happened. She doesn't know what to say to me. I'm sitting there, I'm looking at her, but I'm sobbing, and I'm hysterical. She's looking at me like she didn't know what to do. And so eventually she says, Ellen, you cut your hair. And I'm thinking to myself, did that sob cut my hair? And I didn't even know he cut my hair. But when I started to, I don't know, I wasn't calmed down. It was kind of like being a little bit more rational. I realized that she thought that I was the woman who I was subletting from because her name was also Ellen, and she had long hair, and my hair was probably not shoulder, a little bit shorter so she's thinking that I'm this other Ellen, and I'm thinking he cut my hair. It was crazy. I would say probably a good 10 minutes pass, and then the police arrive, and so they take me back up to my apartment where I tell them everything that had happened. I don't see this man that was outside of my door again that night. I don't see him. Oh, I don't even know who he is. What part he played. I don't know what he did after he left the apartment, and I won't know that until several weeks later. So I have to go to the hospital because they thought my jaw could have been dislocated, and it was pretty bad. I ended up with two black eyes. I had marks on either side of my mouth because of the gag that he had put there. It was bad. I mean, to look at me, you would have thought that I had been in a terrible fight. And so it was hard to look in the mirror because it was so horrifying to think what had happened and how I had gotten those marks.
I decided there was no way I couldn't stay in that apartment. There was no way. And so I stayed with friends for the first two nights, and then my mother flew out on that third night and she stayed with me in that apartment. She stayed with me for a few weeks when I was able to go back to the apartment with my mom. On that first day, we heard a scream, several screams, and we realized that it was the woman who lived below me. So we went running down there to see how she was. And at this point, I still didn't know her, but we knew that that screen was coming from her apartment. Her window had been smashed. Many things were all in disarray, and had been missing. It was like, okay, one more thing has happened in this apartment building. I was already out the door. I was not going to be able to stay there. It took a little while for me to be able to leave San Francisco because I had a job, and I felt like I couldn't just leave my boss without having a replacement for me. So that last day before we left San Francisco.
The woman, and I'm not using her name because I forgot to ask her if it was okay. The man that saved me, Bob. Bob Davis is his name. My Nana, my Scottish Nana and I went up to the Marin Headlands, and I have a photograph of Bob's ex wife. Bob and my Nana, the three of them with the Golden Gate Bridge in the background. I took that picture, and it was one of those pictures that I would look at. I'd be so thankful that I had that memory of these two really wonderful people that were there at a time when I thought my life, and then with my Scottish Nana who I was very close with, and then I left San Francisco the next day, and I lived in New York with my parents for about seven months. There were some scary things that happened in the building where that job was, and so I felt like I wasn't really safe.
And so I had a lot of issues with feeling safe, and I was in therapy with two other women that had gone through horrendous things, similar to what had happened with me, but there wasn't anybody that heard them scream or came to their rescue. They endured some horrific assaults, and so I started realizing just how lucky I was that night. Really, really lucky that things turned out the way they did. After about seven months, I said, I cannot live with my parents forever so I'm gonna go live with my sister who lives in Las Vegas. She had a very small studio apartment that when you were standing in any part of that apartment, if you looked around, you could see everything. There wasn't anything that would be hidden, except maybe the closet. And then of course, I'd have the closet door open so I could see inside there too. And so I lived with her for about another seven months, and then I started going to school at UNLV, the university there in Las Vegas. I was going to study hotel management. And while I was in the library, this was in September of 1984. No, 1985, I'm sorry. 1984 was when I was attacked. In September of 1985 while I was doing a little research for a paper that I was doing for my hotel class, I opened up the LA Times, and I saw a picture of a man with his head completely bandaged, but you could see his face. And I looked at that picture, and I said, that's the man that was in my apartment.
Heather Nelson: Because at that point, they never found him. When the police showed up, they never found him.
Ellen Govan: Yeah. And I even forgot to mention what Bob was doing. I'll tell you that in a little bit, but Bob was doing something when I was in the apartment with his ex wife. He was doing something that's related to that. So when I saw that bandaged face, I knew that that was him. I knew it without a doubt
Heather Nelson: Any like masks on or anything when he attacked you?
Ellen Govan: I was wearing contact lenses, but I had taken them out already that night, and so his face looked blurry to me when I first saw it through the doorway. But when he was that close to my face, because he was biting the bridge of my nose. I mean, he was really close so I did get a close up look. I think part of me was shutting down because it was so horrific to have somebody that was so evil so close to me. And so one of the things that I knew I would always be able to identify him certainly, was his height. He was thin. The way he spoke, because he said things to me, and that is ingrained in my memory forever. I will never ever forget that voice. And so when I saw that picture, I called my parents. I spoke with my sister, and I said, that's him. I know it's him. And they said, well, go ahead and call the San Francisco Police, and let them know that you believe that that is the man that was in your apartment 14 months earlier. So they flew down, and it was Detective Frank who was in charge of the Ramirez cases. Because there were cases in San Francisco, and a lot of people don't know that. But there were cases in San Francisco. The bulk of them were in Los Angeles, at least the ones that he was charged with. But there were cases in San Francisco that to this day, they know that he was involved with them. But for whatever reason, people decided not to press charges, or San Francisco didn't want to go through with the charges on him. So it's interesting when you do some research on him, a lot of people don't think he ever had anything to do with San Francisco. He was very active in the Bay Area. Very active.
Heather Nelson: There's a documentary series on him, correct? And I want to say that they'd said San Francisco because I was like, oh, my gosh, there has been so much of that that has happened in California.
Ellen Govan: In fact, I think the one that you're talking about, it was a Netflix thing that happened maybe two or three years ago. It came out, and I just recently watched it again because I wanted to make sure that I understood what that detective, Frank Falzon, who was the detective that came to Las Vegas to show me the video lineup. He says in that documentary, there are cases in San Francisco that we know that he was involved with, but we just never got to the point. Because they had him from 15 homicides. I think they felt like, what would be the sense in charging him up here? And maybe some of the families that were involved, didn't want to go forward. And so that's kind of what happened, and that's why San Francisco has never really mentioned that much when it comes to Ramirez. It's mostly in the Los Angeles area. SoDetective Falzon, he comes down to Las Vegas, and he shows me the video lineup. And at this point, I had not even known about the Night Stalker.
Heather Nelson: I was gonna say, was it something that you had even heard about?
Ellen Govan: Yeah. Because I'm in Las Vegas. So a lot of what he was doing was happening in Los Angeles. He did have one that happened up in San Francisco that was kind of close to just before he got captured. So all this is going on in California, I don't want to hear anything about crime or any kind of horrific things that are happening. I don't have a television. I'm rarely listening to the radio. I was a student. I was working full time. I didn't have time for anything like that, so it was so unusual for me to even be looking at the newspaper. But because I was doing a research report for one of my classes, and that's how I saw his picture. So when detective Falzon comes down to Las Vegas, he shows me the video lineup, and Ramirez comes in. And then each one of the suspects is asked to say a few words, and when I heard his voice, I said, 100% no doubt in my mind, it's him. Bob Davis up in San Francisco, he was still living in San Francisco. He also sees the video lineup without a doubt because he actually ends up seeing Ramirez twice in my apartment.
And then a few minutes later in a car taking off down the street. So Bob can see his face and those eyes, those dead eyes, he has dead eyes because there's nothing there. And so when Bob sees the lineup, 100%, no doubt in his mind. And then detective Falzon takes him to another room where there's jewelry that is spread out on the table, and he wants Bob to identify if there's any jewelry. Because three days after I was attacked, the ex wife's apartment was broken into. On that table were several pieces of jewelry that Bob had given to his ex wife, so we know that it was Ramirez that came back three days later to the apartment just below mine. And in fact, we kind of think that her apartment might have been the one that was originally targeted. My apartment was kind of empty. I had just moved in. I didn't have a lot of things, but her apartment was beautiful, full of furniture and very nicely decorated. And so that may have been what his first target was. But then when Bob was there in the apartment, he's like, okay, no thanks. And headed up to my apartment, which was just above, and made the entry into my apartment so easy because the darn window wouldn't lock.
Heather Nelson: Did you ever find out if it was targeted or not? But that's how you think.
Ellen Govan: Never got a chance to ask any questions. Nothing like that. Because of coming back three days later, Bob was just shocked when he saw his wife's jewelry. And they were unusual pieces so it wasn't like, oh, it was just like anybody else's. It was things that were very different. So after I did the video lineup, Detective Falzon actually said to me, you were really lucky. You got Ramirez before he got really bad. And so I looked at him and I was like, I was lucky? I couldn't reconcile that I was lucky that I was attacked by Ramirez. And so I kind of kept that in the back of my mind for many, many years that he hadn't been quite that bad, and so that was part of how I was able to survive that night.
Heather Nelson: What made you think that he just walked away without hurting you more, or raping you, or killing you? Was there something that you think that threw him off?
Ellen Govan: Let me tell you what Bob was doing after he dropped me off at his ex wife's apartment. He ran back upstairs, and he saw Ramirez going out my window. So he runs over to the window, and he's cutting him out. He knew that Ramirez had a knife because I said that in the hallway. I said, he's got a knife. He's got a knife. He's trying to kill me. So Bob's thinking, okay, wasn't quite sure. He figures, I'm gonna run out the front, and I'm gonna catch him as he's coming down the alley. So Bob sees him, and he's cussing at him. He's making a lot of noise, and people's lights are starting to turn on. And so he runs out the front, and he gets there, and he doesn't see anybody, so he runs down Chestnut Street to Van Ness, and then makes a left over to, I guess that's Lombard, and he sees this guy who didn't know was Ramirez yet in a car with a New York license plate. The guy sees him, and you can tell he's startled, and he locks the door with his elbow and takes off. So Bob's looking at the license plate, trying to memorize it. And so he runs back to the apartment, and the police are already there, so he gives them all the information that he has. And he did see Ramirez's face in my apartment.
Because right after I ran out, he walked into the apartment, and the light from the outside hallway was shining into my apartment, right onto Ramirez's face. And so he saw his face in my apartment. He could see him, and the same thing with me, the dead. Dead eyes. And then saw that same face in that car taking off. So it was obvious that Ramirez would hot wire cars constantly. He'd go from one place, one city to another city. I mean, that's how he got around. And so that was not unusual at all for that to be the way that he would go from one neighborhood to another. I had often thought, why did detective Falzon come down to Las Vegas and show me that video? And I would find out many years later, after Bob and I had reconnected, when I started wondering, well, who was Ramirez's first murder victim? I wanted to know who he killed. And I was devastated when I saw that his actual first victim was a little girl in San Francisco the night after he attacked me. And a lot of people don't realize that.
I googled it, and it came up right away. But it was a little girl. She'd had a fight with her brother. She lived in a residential hotel, and she ended up in the basement of the building, and he was living in San Francisco at that time. The San Francisco police knew that during that span of time, April and May of 1984, he lived in one of those transient hotels. And so I had often wondered, why did detective Falzon, why did he come down to Las Vegas and show me that video? It's because he knew that there was this opportunity, this time frame when Ramirez was doing things in San Francisco, and it happened to be right within that frame of when this little girl gets killed, and I was attacked the night before, and Bob's ex wife's apartment gets broken into three days after I was attacked. So everything started coming together, and you won't find anything that says Richard Ramirez and then Ellen Govan. You're not going to see anything like that, but that's the back story of how that night, that opportunity became available to him. He was looking to do something. Because obviously, he knew that I was in the apartment. He wouldn't have been sneaking towards my bathroom. He was after somebody. And he was an opportunist. He would look for opportunities where he could go in and terrorize people, and do all sorts of evil things.
Heather Nelson: So crazy back back then, because there were so many of these types of stories that were unsolved and stuff. Because back then, there was TV, but there's no social media, there's no cameras, and so many of these cases just went unsolved.
Ellen Govan: And it's amazing when you dig a little further how you can make connections between, especially some of these serial killers who were very active. And as long as they weren't getting caught, they were going to continue with what they did. I almost felt like him coming back to the apartment below me, Bob's ex-wife, it was almost like a defiance with him. He wanted to show, well, you came close, but you didn't get me. So now, I'm coming to rob this apartment. And heaven forbid, if she had been home, that just would have been such an awful thing. So I kind of put it behind me once he was arrested, and I knew that he would be going to jail for a very long time. Maybe even get the death penalty. And then I graduated from UNLV. But before I did, I met my wonderful husband, Bill Govan, and that's where we met. I was at UNLV, and then we decided to get married. It was June of 1987, and we moved eventually to Petaluma. And so here, I was back in the Bay Area. I didn't think I'd ever do that again. I was working at a hotel in San Francisco, the Campton Place Hotel. And so I did that for like a year and a half, and then I took another job. Another hotel that had just opened, ended up at the Sonoma Mission Inn, working there for about four years, I think it was.
And then when we decided to start a family, I took a little break. I stayed home for about four or five years, and then I ended up working at the school where I just recently retired from. Did a lot of different jobs there. I did daycare in the morning. I was a kindergarten aide. I was a paraeducator for kids that were just falling a little bit behind in their classwork, and then with the kindergarteners during lunch and recess. And so had a wonderful 21 years at Rincon Valley School District at Sequoia Elementary School, and retired in 2022, and have been able to enjoy different things that I put on the back burner. Let me go back a couple of years before I retired. So this would have been 2018, it was four years before I retired. I was visiting with Bill's godmother down in Sonoma, and my sister in law was with me. I had lost touch with Bob Davis. I don't know how that happened. He and I both kind of had different things going on in our lives, and so I wasn't sure where he was. And this particular day, we were sitting around Bill's godmother's dining room table. I was showing the pictures of my younger daughter Grace who became an Italian citizen. We were just talking about Italy, Grace and her adventures, and I looked down at my phone, and I saw a friend request from Bob Davis. And I looked at that, and I immediately started to cry. I'm just crying and crying. And Sandra and my godmother, Cecile, both look at me.
Sandra knew what had happened to me, but Cecile didn't, and so they were like, what's going on? And I was like, it's the man who saved my life. And so I had to tell Cecile the whole story because she was like, what is going on here? And so he basically said, I've been looking for you for a long time, and you don't know yet, but in a lot of ways, you saved my life. And please call me when you can. And so I'm just, I'm a wreck. I can't stop crying. And that whole afternoon while we were visiting, I was just thinking, what did he mean by that? How did I save his life? I actually don't end up calling him. I messaged him, and I said, yeah. Yes, Bob, it's me. It's me, yeah. And so we kind of messaged back and forth for a few weeks, and then he came here, and we got to see one another a few weeks after that. So it was in October. I think it was October 8, at any rate. So this was 2018. And when he came, he had never met Bill. And so when he first arrived, it was funny because I have a golden retriever. And when new people come to the house, her whole body's wagon, and she's super excited.
Bob comes to the door, and I'm a nervous wreck because I haven't seen him in 30 years. So Nala comes with me to the door, and she sniffs him, and it's like she backs up as though he's somebody different. Oh, like he's different. And so of course, I gave him a big hug, and I thanked him so much for just persevering and finding me, and just so wonderful to be able to see him. And so for about 5 or 10 minutes, we were just chatting amongst ourselves. And then Bill came on because he knew, here's Bob Davis arriving, and the two of them were like they'd known each other all their lives. As it turned out, Bill interviewed for a position at Cavallo Point down in Marin, and Bob worked there at the time that Bill had interviewed for the position. Isn't that weird? And so Bill ended up not taking the job because he didn't want to commute that far. But I just thought, how funny would that have been if Bill had taken that position, and then he and Bob eventually would have figured out who each one of them was as far as me. So that's a small world.
Heather Nelson: Before you and I started recording, because obviously, I've known Bill forever, but I haven't seen him forever. I got a massage a couple weeks ago, and this lady remembered me, and normally, I don't talk. But sometimes when they're talking to them, I'm like, sure. We talked the whole time. And she's like, oh, I worked at Bodega Bay Lodge. I'm like, you must know Bill. And like that, you came up and this whole conversation. So it's just so funny how everything is full circle. So where's Bob at now?
Ellen Govan: Okay. So after our initial meeting that time, well, he has several places. He has a ranch up in Mendocino County. A beautiful ranch, Ohana Ranch. He called it Ohana Ranch, and Bill and I will often go up there and visit him. And then he has a place in Kauai, and he has a place in New Orleans where he is right now. He and his husband have traveled all over the place. They enjoy all their different homes. I have many, many friends, and Bill and I are very blessed to have them in our lives. I mean, they're just very, very special. And so when we did have that initial meeting, when he came to our house, I had wondered what he meant by in a lot of ways that I had saved his life. And so he started telling us about an incident that happened to him. He was in his 20s and was at Florida State University, I believe. And it involved, I won't go into the details here, but it involved a woman that worked in this restaurant. He was there with a bunch of his friends, and he noticed a man that came in and was having a serious argument with this woman, and pulled a gun and then took her out of the restaurant, and then into a taxi cab that was waiting in the back of the restaurant. Well, Bob intervened, and the police were involved.
And long story short, what ended up happening was the man who did this, he was shot and killed by the police. So Bob only knew that this woman was a couple. This woman and this man were a couple. She wanted a divorce, and he was not buying that. And then who knows what he was going to end up doing that night, but he ended up losing his life. And for some reason, and Bob doesn't even understand why he felt this way, but he felt like there was a burden on his shoulders. He was only 20 years old when this happened, and he felt like there was a burden on his shoulders from what happened that night. And he said the night that he was able to save me, that burden felt like it had lifted off of his shoulders. And so he really, really felt like the two were connected. That one somehow made the other one lighter. That it didn't feel as heavy as it had. When I heard that, I'm like, this guy, there's something about him.
Heather Nelson: He's like a detective or like a cop. Now, I feel like it happened twice.
Ellen Govan: And that's not the only time he has been involved in other things. Well, the woman in the restaurant, for sure, I mean, I think he could have easily saved her life that night. With me for sure, without a doubt, I was going to die that night if he didn't intervene. He was actually the reason that Ramirez let me go. Bob was pounding on my door. I didn't hear it because I just want to survive. So I didn't hear anything, but Ramirez did. And Ramirez thought that he was going to get caught, and so that's why he let me go. Bob that night when he ended up at his ex wife's apartment kind of against his will. She had called him, and they were on very good terms. They were separated, but they were still on very good terms. And she had moved into that apartment a couple of months prior, and she would get on the phone, come on Bob, you haven't seen my apartment yet. Come on over, I'll make dinner. It's the Academy Awards tonight, she was telling him, come on. And he was a student at the time, so he was studying. He was working two jobs, and he was like, no, I can't. I have to study for my test tomorrow. And he hangs up the phone. And right away, he starts to feel like something's not right, something just feels strange. So he called her back and he said, okay, I'm coming over, but I'm only gonna stay for a short while.
So he goes over, and the whole time that he's there, and the Academy Awards are on as they're watching the show. He keeps saying to her, turn the volume down. I hear something. He did that throughout however long the Academy Awards. It's a long show the whole time, that's what he was doing. He says his palms were sweaty. His heart was just palpitating. He was feeling something, something was going to happen. I wasn't even in my apartment until 10: 30 that night. He was there from like 6:00 o'clock. All those hours that I wasn't even in my apartment like, so it's going to happen. He knew something was going to happen. And so at a certain point, the ex wife, she's looking at him. He jumps up, he runs out of her apartment, runs up the stairs, gets to my door. And the whole time in his rational brain, it's saying to him, what are you doing? What are you doing? There is not a problem here. What are you getting involved in? Don't do this. There was no way he could stop nothing that his brain was telling him, it was making sense to him. All he knew was he needed to start banging on this door and asking whoever was in there was okay. And it was that banging on the door and the loud way that he was wanting to find out if the person was okay, that's what made Ramirez let me go. I'm positive about it.
Heather Nelson: Where is Ramirez now? Is he dead?
Ellen Govan: He died in 2013, some sort of cancer. For me, that was a lot of closure. When you have somebody like that and they're still out there, even if they are in prison, you just have that sense of that evilness that is still there. And so when I did see that, I think it appeared in The Press Democrat, I was like, okay, so that's one more door that closes to what happened.
Heather Nelson: So on a trauma, do you still have trauma with it? Does it still keep you up at night?
Ellen Govan: Keep me up at night, except, and this is something that's new for me. Ever since that happened, up until last June, I could never be overnight in a house by myself. Never, and so that was one of those things where if I was going to be by myself, something was going to happen to me. That's just like an automatic. I've had lots of different therapists through the years, especially right after it happened. And then again, when Bob and I reconnected, I had a tough time for probably two solid months where I couldn't stop crying. There was so much that I had kept really deep down that when we reconnected and I started telling this story, many of my friends didn't know I had gone through that. My friends from California, people back in New York, and people I'd gone to college with, they knew. But not my friends from California because I'd never spoken about it.
And so when I did start to open up, it felt like it was pouring out of me. I couldn't stop talking about it. Because every time I told the story, it made it feel lighter. It was as though all of this trauma that I buried really deep, it was finally being allowed to just surface and come out. And that felt really good. I don't think that I was ready. Actually even to reunite with Bob until I was about 50, I think it was 58 because it was in 2018, I think I was too busy with my children. I had a very busy life with lots of things going on. Whereas as I got older and the girls moved out of the house, I wasn't so concerned about their safety. And it's funny, I didn't think that I was like a helicopter parent. I didn't think I was that way. But once this story came out, one of Grace's friends, the mom, actually said to me, I knew something must have happened to you with the way that you were so protective of your two girls. She said, I could tell there was some kind of trauma that you'd experience. And I was shocked when she said that I just did not realize that that was something that I was using to protect my girls, because I knew what a horrible evil person attacking you could feel like, and I never, ever wanted them to ever experience anything like that. And so I probably did. I overreacted to, or not overreacted, but I just reacted to a lot of different situations that other people would not consider at all. And when that happens to you, you're gonna go to the worst case scenario. It's just like a natural thing that happens.
Heather Nelson: When did you tell Bill?
Ellen Govan: Bill knew right away. As soon as we started dating, I said, I've got something to tell you. And he was so wonderful. He was so sweet and gentle, and just a sweetheart right from the very beginning. When I think about my life, I went to New York, and then I ended up in Las Vegas, and I ended up at the Hotel Management Program, which is what he was enrolled in. So in a very roundabout way of my life, because of what happened, I ended up meeting this incredible man, and having this beautiful life with him with my two daughters, and now my two grandchildren. So wonderful son-in-law, and maybe another son-in-law on the way.
Heather Nelson: I love that. What a great story. It's just so crazy. We were just talking about how things reappear or come about, and what a full circle for that whole entire story. After that situation, did you have a lot of trauma with men? Obviously, you were scared to be alone. But how was your relationship with men after that?
Ellen Govan: That did take a toll. I want to say that when I moved back to New York, I didn't socialize, I mean, I went to work in the morning, and it took me a while to get a job. It probably was about three or four months before I started working, but I was suspicious of men. And then when I had a couple of things happen, not necessarily any particular man, but there was one incident when I was going to work at the Viking Penguin, it was the name of the publishing company, and they were on the 7th or 8th floor of the building. But on the second and third floor, they were having a lot of work done. So when the elevator would open on those floors, it was black. And I went one morning, I was early for work, and I don't know why the elevator opened on that floor. But there I was by myself in the elevator, the doors open, it's just blackness. And I panicked. I was like, I can't do this. This is not okay for me. And so I think it was soon after that that I was like, I can't live in New York. I cannot live in New York. It's just too scary for me.
Heather Nelson: Even going back to working in San Francisco and being at a hotel, that wasn't trauma for you?
Ellen Govan: It was interesting because I was at the front desk, and I was very visible. And so for me, the scariest thing is being by myself in an enclosed place. After Bill and I were married, and you know him, he worked a gazillion hours so he'd leave at 6:00 o'clock in the morning, and wouldn't come home until midnight. I'd go in my regular eight hours, so I'd go into work at maybe three or four. And we were living in Larkspur. We had an apartment, and no dog yet. We would eventually get a dog. I didn't have a dog yet. And for me to be able to take a shower, I had to leave my front door open. I had to leave the front door open. Because for me, that was an escape. If I closed and locked that door, I felt like I was trapped. So that was a kind of a backwards way of thinking of the situation, but that's how I felt. I needed the front door open. That's how escaped from Ramirez, out the front door, and he came in through a window. So that's been a big thing with me, like always having that escape. Sometimes in this Santa Rosa house, it's a two story house, if I knew that Bill was going to take our dog, Nala, hunting, she's a bird dog. If he was going to go out and be gone the whole day and I came home from work and I knew that nobody was home, I'd immediately hear things upstairs. Almost immediately, there would be something going on upstairs, and there was nothing. But that was just the way my brain would work.
So two things that happened recently that I'm really proud of. Last June, Bill had the annual fishing trip so he was going to go away, and we purchased a little place up in Willits two years ago. So we have this little mobile home, but it's super cute. I said to him, I'm ready. I want to see what it's like to stay overnight at the Willets house. I couldn't even call him, because where he was, cell service wasn't good. I was super nervous, but it was something I had to prove to myself. And I went up there, and it ended up that it was a weekend that we were doing a yard sale. Everybody was participating in it, so I was super busy that day. As it ended up, my two grandkids came up that day so they were with me. And then my daughter ended up sleeping over that first night. But the second night, I was on my own so I barricaded every single door, every single window. I kept the hall light on, and then I finally went to bed at about 10:00 o'clock. And I woke up at midnight at 2:00 o'clock, at 4:00 o'clock, at 6:00 o'clock, and then it was light out. But I proved that I could stay overnight, and nothing happened to me, and I had Nala. Nala, my golden retriever, was in the bedroom with me so I felt like she would be my first alert that something wasn't okay. And so that was a big step forward for me.
And about two weeks ago, I did the same thing in the Santa Rosa house, which I didn't think I'd ever be able to do. But it worked out that nobody was home. We do have a second dog now that belongs to my daughter and her husband, and so he was downstairs, which is great because he's kind of like a guard dog. And then Nala was upstairs in the bedroom with me. Of course, I barricaded everything again. Because in my mind, that would slow down anybody. But I slept through the night. I was able to sleep through the night. So that was really good progress. It's going to be things like that where I reclaim parts of my independence. And a lot of people might think, oh, okay. Well, that happens to me too. But the extent that I go to to make sure that I'm safe, that is something that I'm not sure that's ever going to go away. I feel like that's just something that makes me feel better so I do a lot of extra things.
Heather Nelson: Oh, what a story. I'm so thankful that, well, not that you had to go through that, but that you were able to escape. And the crazy part is that his next victim was, that's when he started killing.
Ellen Govan: I know. When I think about that and think about that little girl, it just devastates me to think that he wanted to do that, like that was what was in his mind. And the minute that I heard the window shut in my apartment, I knew that I had to fight. There was no way, and I could have been killed. He could have killed me, but I needed to fight. And that was really strong in me. That was my instinct, that I needed to do everything possible. I remember these bay windows in that apartment and my bed was right up against them, and I remember trying to use my foot to break one of the windows so that there would be noise, and people would be like, what's going on? But it was such a strong thing in me, and I'm grateful that I did fight back. And I'm so grateful that Bob Davis, for whatever reason, knew that he needed to get to that door, and needed to start banging on that door. And everything that he did after that, going after the guy, seeing him again just I feel like, I don't know, there's something that I need to do to acknowledge that I was so very lucky that night. I was so blessed.
And so my other thing is that I have been trying to figure out something where I can give back,either through a foundation, through a scholarship. I did do one year, and this was a few years back where I did a scholarship in Bob's name, the Bob Davis Scholarship, given to a young man who wanted to be a power rescue jumper. I don't know if you know what that is, somebody who goes into emergency situations and can help, maybe in a war. Or in this case, the way I found out about it was through a Facebook post that Bob Davis had put on his page talking about this guy named Mike Maroney, who was a Pararescue Jumper who helped an enormous amount of people. One in particular was a little girl whose family had lost their home in the Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans, and he had done a lot of Pararescue Jump in like 5,000 lives. I think he was credited with saving. And when he saved this little girl, she gave him the best hug. She was only four years old, and he just remembered that hug and smile of hers. He didn't really know much about the family, but when he started searching for her so many years later, he was able to reconnect with her. And that's the story that when I saw it, I was like, I want to do something where I can pay it forward with maybe giving some training to somebody to become a pararescue jumper. So that was for one year. I thought that I would continue with that. But I think Mike's probably not doing the program that he had been doing that I was able to do the scholarship for, I'm kind of thinking about ways that I can be involved with a group that might be interested in helping people that have suffered trauma. People who need to have, I don't know what, it would be something that helps them to get beyond the trauma that they've experienced.
And I have been very involved with a Facebook group, and it's called Surviving Victims of Violent Crimes. On Facebook, Surviving Victims of Violent Crimes, James Alt is the Founder of this group, and he himself went through a very, very traumatic experience when he was young. He was 17, his girlfriend was 15, and she died, and he was badly, badly beaten. And so he decided, I think about 10 years ago, to start this Facebook group. And we have over 3,000 members, and we get to share our stories, get comfort, advice and support out of this Facebook group that has helped so many people. So a really big shout out to him and this group, and all of the wonderful coordinators that are in this group. And then another thing that I've been doing is I have been writing about my life, and that's through the Santa Rosa Junior College. It's called the Lifelong Learning Program for Older Adults. But since last February, I've been writing stories about different things that have happened in my life. And when I wrote about this story, my classmates were so supportive and so caring. And they're very excited about this podcast, so they'll all be tuning in. But it's a wonderful group to be involved in, and many, many wonderful stories that people share. And so I get a lot of comfort and a lot of joy from this class just writing, because there's a whole bunch of stuff that's happened in my life before, and now, and during. So it's just a fun thing to be a part of.
And then the last thing, let me tell you, speaking about things that were on the back burner. I found this group up in Mendocino County, because Bill and I live there part time, and they're called the Mendocino Mermaids. It's a community organization that does coastal cleanups along Mendocino County. And so this was about four years ago when I found out about the big article in The Press Democrat about what they do. And it's a good group of people. We get together maybe once a month, and we do these coastal cleanups. And then afterwards, we do a little photo shoot with our mermaid tails on the beach. It's so much fun. It's so much fun. And this Saturday, I'm gonna go to Fort Bragg where they have a beautiful community center, and we're gonna swim as a pod.
Heather Nelson: I love this for you.
Ellen Govan: Lots of joy and wonderful people in my life. I just feel so blessed that my life didn't end at 24. Thank you, Bob Davis.
Heather Nelson: Thank you, Bob Davis.
Ellen Govan: Things for me, even though it was a terrible, traumatic thing to go through, life is wonderful.
Heather Nelson: I love that you are a great storyteller. By the way, I cannot wait to read your books, because you are very great at your story. Because I was like, tell me the things. And you're like, hold on a minute. Give me more. That was great. Thank you so much. I hope this like, you were saying this when you get to express and tell the story, that it is therapeutic for you. I hope it's not traumatizing, but I love all the little nuggets that you have learned along the way, and all the great things that you're doing. I appreciate you so much for being here and telling this story. It's beautiful.
Ellen Govan: It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for giving me the opportunity.