Life Conversations with a Twist
Join me once a week for a new interview with a local, badass woman who has an amazing story to tell. Join me in conversation so you too can gain inspiration and empowerment from these stories! If you love hearing about leadership, relationships, families, motherhood and navigating hard times, then tune into my podcast and share with others. If you love what you hear, share and tag me on Instagram at @heathernelson.life. You can also visit my website at heathernelson.life.
Life Conversations with a Twist
From Principal to Nutrition Coach with Katie Barr
“Shaming them [kids] about their food choices is more detrimental than one piece of candy.” —Katie Barr
The food we consume is more than just a sustenance— it's a reflection of our values, our culture, and our connection to the world around us. By mindfully choosing what we put on our plates, we have the power to nourish not only our bodies but also our communities and the planet. Hence, embracing a holistic approach to eating can unlock a world of vibrant health, sustainable living, and profound personal transformation.
Katie Barr, a former high school principal, has embarked on a remarkable journey from the world of education to the realm of integrative nutrition. Drawing from her deep understanding of the human body and her unwavering passion for holistic wellness, Katie now dedicates her life to empowering others to harness the transformative power of food as medicine.
Tune in as Heather and Katie delve into the profound impact of food on our physical, mental, and emotional well-being, offering practical insights and actionable strategies to nourish both body and soul.
Connect with Heather:
Episode Highlights:
01:36 Meet Katie
11:09 Challenges and Benefits of Being an Educator
23:16 Nutrition and Lifestyle Tips
34:13 Foods Recommendations
44:49 Helpful Resources for Better Health
51:45 Empowerment and Connection Among Women
Connect with Katie:
Katie Barr is a holistic nutrition coach and chef with a passion for helping women achieve balance and wellness through food. After a 30-year career in education, including roles as a high school principal, Katie transitioned to focus on her love of nutrition and cooking. She is currently training as an Ayurvedic nutrition coach to deepen her understanding of how food can be used as medicine.
Katie's business, More Than Meals, aims to support women in nourishing their bodies and minds through seasonal, plant-based cooking and lifestyle guidance. With a background in athletics as a student and a lifelong interest in the connection between food and health, Katie is dedicated to empowering others to make simple, sustainable changes for improved wellbeing.
Heather Nelson: Hello everyone. Welcome to this week's Life Conversations With a Twist.
I have Katie on today. I'm really excited to have this conversation with her. We were talking earlier before we started recording how we met. And our great friend, Alicia, who's my co-founder of Empower Your Path Retreat, she was like, you need to meet Katie. She has this amazing story. She's doing such great things. You and I talked, I think we talked for like an hour, and then nothing happened, and then we reconnected. You recently spoke at our last January retreat about health and eating healthier. And I'm just, I can't wait to dive more into your story.
Katie Barr: Yeah. Well, thank you. Thanks for having me on. I'm excited to be here.
Heather Nelson: You have quite the journey, and I have all the questions so take us back to little, Katie, where did you grow up? How did you get here to Sonoma County?
Katie Barr: I grew up in Colorado, actually. Funny story, I was just back there last week being in my little home space in Winter Park. And oh, my gosh, unbelievable snow. I took my boys there and my brother. We met my brother's family, and they just had a blast, kind of just reading our lives as kids. My mom and dad were big on us being outdoors, and so we spent a lot of time up in Winter Park, and being outdoors. And my mom, in particular, I remember in the 60's, 70's, there was like this little local nutrition store, like a natural food store back then, it was so different than it is today. And going with my mom and getting food, the oats out of the bin so we can make granola, my mom and her sourdough starter, all the little things, and so that was kind of my start to love food. I always had this voracious appetite. And growing up, I was an athlete. So I was a swimmer all through high school and college, and then had a shoulder injury, and I moved to running and just some form that my body was always moving, and realizing how important that was. And knowing how I feed my body affects how I perform, and mentally too, right? My career was something totally different for a long time, but I think my mom was particularly careful with my brother and I about understanding nutrition, and what it does for your body. Even in the 70's, we're drinking juice out of a can and sticky gross cereals.
Heather Nelson: So gross. I can't wait to talk about that because I think there's this huge movement of how we eat healthier, cleaner and organic. But we'll get to it. But you've always had a love for food. That's always been something in your life, and also eating, making healthier food choices.
Katie Barr: Yeah, I think like everybody, right? We all have the roller coaster. I don't know, I'm not a man. But for women, we all have this roller coaster that we ride off emotionally. I think also with the change of our body that we go through kind of this roller coaster of ups and downs, and eating well and not eating well. Then on top of that, we all have two jobs. So we've got our day job, and then we have our job when we get home. I have two boys. They're now grown mostly out of the house. But when they were little and growing up, I did my job, and then came home and did my second job. I was running the kids around them, making sure we had groceries, and we have this, and we have that. There's always challenges to how we maintain a balance and a healthy lifestyle. And social media doesn't help that, because we see these pictures and these images going, oh, that's how I'm supposed to be. And why am I not? We gotta live the best that we can each day.
Heather Nelson: Yeah. And I know food is like a huge thing for most people. I was actually listening to podcasts this morning about food. It was more about simple foods or eating more raw foods. I don't have all these processed ingredients, and all these hidden things, and to really read the labels on things. And I started looking at things, I'm like, I don't want to know.
Katie Barr: Yeah. Because we think we're doing well for our body, and then you find out that, really? But then it goes back to that whole time thing. I don't have time to make almond milk, or my own yogurt so I was like, okay. Gotta kind of weigh it a little bit too, and find that balance of what works best.
Heather Nelson: Did you go to college here? What made you come to Sonoma County from Colorado?
Katie Barr: I went to the University of Oregon, actually. And so my husband and I ducks through and through. My parents actually moved to California when I was in high school, so I did some of my high school years in Marin. They were grounded here by the time I went off to college, and so it was an easy up and down the coast to go to school and come home. I don't know if I was ever really connected to this area, but my family was here so I was coming back a lot. But when I graduated from college, when I got my undergraduate degree, I couldn't decide what I wanted to do. If I wanted to go into education, I had such a great major in History and Latin American Studies. And I think my parents were like, oh, my gosh, what are you going to do with that?
Heather Nelson: It is a little random.
Katie Barr: I loved it, but it wasn't like going to get me anywhere in life. And so my parents are like, we need to find a life coach for you. And the person was like, okay, you're either going to become a lawyer. You're going to become an educator, right? So when I finished college, I couldn't decide. I wanted to go to culinary school, but my parents were like, really? I think you should go to education. So I started working for Planned Parenthood at the time in Eugene, Oregon, which is where I was, and they needed somebody to go into high schools and talk about reproductive health. And I discovered I had this deep love for kids. But I was like, oh, my God, I love being in high school. This is so cool, and it's so much fun. I
Heather Nelson: They terrify me, by the way. My stepdaughter, she's five years older than my daughter, so she was in high school. I was like, she would have friends over, and I don't even know how to interact with them. Scared the crap out of me. I'm adapting now. And actually, they're really fun because they're like this weird, figuring who they are, and they're kind of like little sponges. And so they're kind of fun now, but I've always been terrified.
Katie Barr: I loved high school. Middle school and high school. You get me a little bit younger, and I'm kind of like, oh, but I love their brains and the way that they work. They're just so quirky, and they're just so insecure, too, right? Because it's all about, who likes you and what you're wearing, the drama of the day, and who knows. So I went back to school, actually down here, because it was cheaper for me to live at home and go to school. So I went to Dominican University and got my teaching credential, and went to work in Sonoma at a middle school. And so that was kind of my start. I was doing the up and down the coast thing. So we stayed here for a few years, and we went back to Oregon. Had our kids, and then I got my administrative credential and started down the road as a school administrator. And so I started up outside of the Eugene area in Pleasant Hill, which is kind of a little bedroom community in Eugene. As an assistant principal, and then here we go. So coming now to this new life of being back down here, and although we've been here for, I don't know, 16 plus years. My husband finished his masters in Marriage and Family Therapy, and we wanted to be back in the sun so we moved back down here with two little boys. I didn't go back into administration for a while. I ran the nonprofit for a while, and then worked for the county office, helping align K12 with post secondary, and then finally went back to being school administrator. Because I really just missed being with kids, so it was pretty special.
Heather Nelson: And you're currently not working in the high school anymore.
Katie Barr: No. I have ended my 30-ish year career as an educator. I feel like I'm moving in a different role of education, and have gone back to my love of food. And so I went back to school, got my chef license through Bowman College. And now, I'm training to become an Ayurvedic Nutrition Coach. So really starting to understand how food can be used as medicine and how we think more seasonally about what we eat. And that's kind of my passion at the moment. I think the thing that I realized being advised, even though I have this love for kids, I also love teaching adults. That was part of the joy of being in high school. It wasn't only just how we were supporting the kids, but there was this whole group of adults too. How I could support and help them with their learning and their growth as educators? So I'm melding two of my loves together to launch this new career.
Heather Nelson: So you're totally not leaning into this, but you were a principal of high school? How many years? To me, I think it's a big deal.
Katie Barr: I was there for five years. I was the vice principal for two, and then I was the principal for three. So ending my career at the end of COVID. I was there during the shutdown and helped the school figure out what we were doing. A little bit of chaos. And then I think my last graduating class was 2021, that was the last year I was there.
Heather Nelson: What would you say was probably your most rewarding part of being a principal of a high school? Was there a moment, or was there a certain thing that you did every year that it made it all worth it. Because that's a really good question. High school is hard, right? We talked about some of the characteristics of a teenager. Especially being, I would say an administrator or a teacher. Nowadays, last week, I just had Larkin on, and we talked about education and as a whole. So many challenges now with social media and bullying. And now, you have to think about active shooters, fires and pandemics. Literally, you were in the hardest spot, but there's got to be something deep down that was super rewarding for you to continue to do it.
Katie Barr: There's a lot. I would say one of the biggest things that I always enjoyed about being at the high school was graduation, and that last month with the seniors and seeing them grow up. They're thinking about their plans and who they're going to be, and watching them go. And that was always a goal of mine. You stand up there and give out the diplomas, and it was always a goal of mine that at least I knew every student's name as they were walking across the stage. So there was some point in their high school career that we had an interaction, or there was a touch point between us. Because I don't know, I just feel like that's a big piece of a relationship is all of it. No one can learn unless we have a relationship, a community and a piece of who we are, of how we're a part of something, and we belong to something. And so I just felt like I would be hypocritical if I stood up there without really knowing these, of these young people. So I would say that's always been my favorite. That last month, and watching them as they're getting ready to launch into this new life. And I have to say too, the beginning of the year with the freshmen, and seeing just those wide eyes is like, oh, my gosh, what is this going to be? That's my daughter next year. So yeah, they're just so little, and then they grow into these beautiful young people. Even the ones that give you the run for your money. I don't know, there's something. They're all just beautiful inside. We just have to cultivate that beauty and like, okay, we're all human, and we make mistakes, and do dumb things. I personally just believe that there is no kid that's evil inside. I think it's the society that teaches us that.
Heather Nelson: We could literally go down a rabbit hole. But I do want to ask you, because I would say a lot of my listeners probably have children and I just said, my daughter's about to go into high school, and then I have my son going to school. What would be as somebody on your end of what you did and saw in the school systems as a parent, what advice do you have for us if we have children in high school or going into high school of how we can probably be better parents or better leaders? What advice do you have for us?
Katie Barr: Gosh, I think you should just support your kids. What we've all discovered as educators is that relationships are everything for these kids. 90% of it is their relationship and a sense of belonging. And the more we can help cultivate that, I think it is important. Like my oldest son, I had this tight group of kids that were together since they were little. The family is like we were that insular piece, and they just moved through together, and there wasn't a whole lot of up and down and hiccups. They knew who they were, and they felt like one because they had their group. My younger son, however, he's kind of more of a floater, and so he hasn't had, since the time I can remember, he was like, I hate school. I don't want to be in school. It's not so much, because he's super smart. He can look at something once, and then go and take a test and just ace it. And so really for him, it's like peeling back the onion and really understanding it. It's about that sense of belonging. He doesn't have that tight core of friends and community around him. And I think it's only been in the last two years, he decided his junior year to get involved in leadership, and got really close to the leadership teachers and that crew of kids that I think he finally found his footing, and it totally changed the trajectory of his plans. It's so interesting to watch because we had this kid who was just insulated and knew that he just went through. And then we have this one that it's like ups and downs constantly on him about school. And I think realizing when all is said and done, grades, academics, it's gonna come if only we help our kids feel a sense of belonging. It's not going to happen any other way.
Heather Nelson: You had to go back and listen to my podcast last week because it was really good, but we talked about how we need to blow up the whole system.
Katie Barr: The same way. I totally do. We live in this false reality that, I don't know, middle school and high school is going to be everything that it's going to lead to later in life. We all look back like, who I was in high school? I don't remember much about my high school, right? It's like, okay, why are we making this such a pivotal point for these kids? We're just babies.
Heather Nelson: They're still learning. It's so funny. I'm like, I get asked about it all the time. People ask all the time, what would you tell your younger self? What I would tell my younger self is what I'm trying to tell my children now. High school isn't everything. They struggle with friends. I'm like, they may or may not be your best friends. But I'm like, all my best friends, I met after high school, in my career and in my jobs, and your life is going to ebb and flow. It's interesting to now be in that world with my daughter and exploring that.
Katie Barr: The drama of the day will change. It always does. I think that's the thing. We would have kids that one day it's like, this huge thing, right? And then we turn around 24 hours later, and we're ready to deal with it as adults. We've had 24 hours to figure it out and go, okay, this is how we're going to deal with it. And the kids are like, oh, we're over. Then we're gone. We've set up restorative circles and all this other stuff. And they're like, I'm done. They're super resilient. I just don't think we trust them enough. I think that's part of it. We just don't trust them enough to make good decisions because of who we are, as their parents. We've done everything we can to instill good decision making, smart choices and integrity, and honesty in our kids, and so we've got to trust them at some level to make those right choices. And if they don't learn from the lessons, I think that's another piece of the problem that we have today. We have young people who have no accountability so they don't understand what happens when they don't make a smart choice.
Heather Nelson: Which is so interesting because you and I are in this world of fear. Oh, start a business, or go start some new thing. And you're like, well, you're gonna fail. And that's how you learn. And I'm like, well, why don't you push that more with our children? Because I'm very much that way. My husband, especially with our three year old, he's like, oh, he's gonna fall. And I'm like, well, let him. That's how he's gonna figure it out. My son wants to dress, like he's going to the beach and it's zero degrees outside. I'm like, let them freeze.
Katie Barr: Logical consequences have a huge impact. All those little things lead to when the decisions are bigger, right? That they're going to pause, they're going to think it through, they're gonna ask people their advice. All these little times of making decisions and going, oh yeah, I probably should have asked what the weather was like outside before I decided not to go to school with a sweatshirt. Those little things that we think are so minuscule and just day to day. Like, that's what leads up to that's what creates that chain of decision making, so that when those decisions are big, right, they're going to be like, I don't think that's the right choice, because they'll have that internal compass.
Heather Nelson: Well, I do have to say thank you for your work, because you sound like an amazing principal. Every child that we are a part of are probably just even more excited to have you in their life. I just want to say thank you, because I don't think that anybody who watches our kids and educates our kids gets appreciated enough. And so thank you on behalf of all the moms listening. Okay, so COVID happened. This is where your transition kind of happened with wanting to get out of the education and into healthy living food.
Katie Barr: It's been a little bit of a bumpy road getting there. It always has logical consequences. So I left, I realized that I needed a change. I had a friend who was starting an educational software company, and they had sold their curriculum to some larger districts, and they needed help. And so I left my role in public education to kind of go into the private sector as I was thinking, okay, what are my next steps? And enrolling in Bowman and starting down the road of understanding food, and learning more of how to be a holistic chef, it was perfect for the timing because it gave me time and space to be able to go to school. But then I could also still dabble in education and go to these school districts and help them with the implementation of their curriculum. And then I guess I wasn't totally done because I went back to Site Administration at the elementary level. So I was an elementary school principal for a time, and then we had some things happening in our family that just made me realize, okay, it really is time. I need to focus on my family, and I need to really step away from this. The gift has been with that time and space is really starting to discover, okay, who am I in this? When I first went back, I was like, I wanted to cook for the world.
Basically, I was like, oh, I'm gonna start this food program where I do the cooking and deliver lunch meals to teachers or nurses who can't eat well, and they can subscribe to my weekly menu. And I did a trial run with a handful of people who signed up, and I realized how much it was going to take. And I was like, I don't think I have this. It was going to be me hiring people to be a part of it, and I needed to do some major changes to my kitchen to bring it up to speed for commercial production. Or I needed to rent a space. And so there were just all kinds of pieces that, I don't want to call them barriers, but it was these wake up calls. Maybe this isn't the right route. So round two, here we are, Katie bar 2.0. I have a friend who owns a yoga studio, and she's amazing and has been encouraging. I've supported her as their chef when they go on retreat, and that has been lovely. It was just a group of 20 plus women and then they all were just always like, oh, the food's amazing. You're amazing. I mean, who doesn't love that? But also, they just wanted more information because I was doing plant based menus and thinking about the time of day, what they were eating, and how they were eating based on what they were doing in the day. What kind of exercise or meditation? I was really trying to be mindful of how they were eating throughout the day, and so it led to me starting to do some sessions at these retreats like, okay, here's how to think about eating, and here are some simple tips of ways to make things ahead. I really loved it. I was like, wow, that's going back to me as an educator. So I enrolled in this Ayurveda Integrative Nutrition Program, and I'm about halfway through right now. And because I was like, okay, I know enough, but I don't really know enough. So that's kind of where I'm at now.
This next step of launching this new part of my business. So my business is called More Than Meals. Originally starting, as you know, I'm giving you more than a meal because I'm helping you eat healthy. Now being more than meals of really thinking about, how do I balance my life? How do I use food as medicine? How do I use it as a piece to just create longevity in our lives and heal those things that maybe we don't even know we need to heal mentally, spiritually, but also physically. I think we still need Western medicine and all the great things that it provides. But I think more and more, we're starting to see the connections between some of the ancient wisdom of some of the traditional medicines and Western medicine. And so I think that's where my sweet spot is starting to live is how I support, especially women. Hopefully, society is changing and we're seeing women as more powerful. And as producers, I think there's still this belief where we're the ones who have to have all this knowledge around food and how to support everyone else, and we're not supporting ourselves. So really, my focus of where I'm heading is more around the focus of women and how to support them with healthy eating, and how to help them think about that.
Heather Nelson: I love that. You are amazing at our retreat, and we are incorporating you into our next retreat. So anyone who's on the fence of wanting to learn more about what Katie does, she will be at our next retreat. It was so cool. You made such simple things. I just love how you took an ingredient that we're all used to, I think, of like syrup, maple syrup. Everyone loves maple syrup all over their waffles, right? But you're like, okay, well, you can still have the same thing, but with agave syrup. It's just another healthier choice. And so I think a lot of people just don't know that those options even exist, and you've made it really easy to be like, oh, yeah, I can just switch and implement this. And it's just some of those little lifestyle changes that really can move the needle.
Katie Barr: Yeah. I think that's definitely true. And I mean going full circle right back to the juice, the can and the sticky cereals, right? There's so much now at our local national grocery stores that we don't even like hidden things, that we don't even realize we're eating that have an effect on our bodies. We can talk about the things that are like huge red dye that we all are kind of like, yeah, it's not so good for my kid. And yet, it's still prevalent. It's still out there. I was just reading an article about milk versus nut milk, and that milk is back on the rise. And the reason being is because now, most nut milks, or milks that are plant based are now being considered ultra processed foods because of the stabilizers that they're putting in so that they can sit on the shelf longer. Little things like that, we think, okay, I'm buying almond milk. I'm healthy. And replacing dairy milk, which forever we've said can have negative effects on our body. So it's like having to figure out, where is that balance? I think in my process of learning more about food and doing a series of cleanses over time, I went from this very bad, very bad, very bad, right? To now being in this, okay, well, it's not a war. And so starting to understand where the end really lives, each one of us individually has our own beautiful makeup of how we exist. And so there's certain things that it's like, oh, yeah, that works for me. And then there's certain things that's like, oh, that absolutely is not right. And so being able to be in tune with that, I think is really important.
And as a society, we overeat. Like Americans, we just overeat. We snack, we eat things that are not necessarily great for us. We put combos together that are not necessarily good for us. And all of a sudden, we're bloated, and we've got joint pain, we've got migraines, or got mucus build up, and nobody understands why. It's like, maybe? Maybe not. I think that's the beauty of the learning I'm doing right now with Ayurveda, is this idea of like, okay, our internal being has the ability to heal if we trust it, and we listen to it, and we understand it. And so, yes. Instead of white sugar, I can use maple syrup, I can use agave syrup, I can use monk fruit, I can use dates. Dates are a great source of that sugar, if you got the sugar thing going. We hear it over and over again, but the importance of eating seasonally and with the cycle of the sun, right? So it's like our biggest meal should be in the middle of the day, rather than at the end of the day when our metabolism is slowed down. And yeah, in keeping it simple. The best thing we can do for ourselves is really being in tune with our bodies so that we get to what's called the spot, big state. That peaceful state, or that place where our bodies are doing what they need to be doing. And cooking gently, so not everything has to be this crazy five course meal, but like the gentle cooking and then spices. Because normally, the spices make food taste better, but they also bring a medicinal piece to it that our bodies are able to then absorb the nutrients of the food that we're eating because we're gently spicing things. And it's like, oh, gosh, that sweet potato actually tastes really good. And I didn't know I actually like sweet potatoes or whatever.
Heather Nelson: I try to think of it as fun. You're like, oh, let's get curious and try it. And see what sticks. And, yeah, I love that. I think that was one of the things that I took away from it. Well, I took a lot of things, but away. But one of the things that you were talking about is seasonal, like seasonal strawberries. Now, I think about it every time. I like to get food, fruit, because my kids love strawberries. But I'm like, God. They're so not good for them. And I changed my salt. That was the other thing. Oh, guys, I'm like, yay. Get rid of the blue thing salt. And I got beautiful sea salt.
Katie Barr: Oh, excellent. And salt, that's the other thing. We keep hearing salts bad, salts bad. It's the messages we hear, and we've got to start thinking of salt, it increases our digestive fires, right? Because when you think about it, when something salty hits your lips, it creates the water, which then creates that digestive saliva that starts happening, right? And so that whole message just starts going down in your body as you are eating. And so not having salt is not good. Then it's like, okay, I gotta find the good salt. Salt's helping my digestive system work the way that it's supposed to.
Heather Nelson: Yeah, I think so too. Is like, you mean like a yogurt?
Katie Barr: Oh, yeah, yeah. We did an island paradise lassi.
Heather Nelson: Which I was like, what is this hippity, dippity stuff? But it was so good. You get this can at Trader Joe's, which is the place that we all shop at. You made it so easy, and it was so delicious, so fun and different.
Katie Barr: It was fun. Yeah, I enjoyed being there. Any chance I get to talk about food, it just fires me out.
Heather Nelson: You found your passion.
Katie Barr: I found my passion. Yeah, my second pass.
Heather Nelson: We could literally talk hours, and hours, and hours about nutrition. But I would like to ask you, you told us at the retreat what are the five must foods that would really change, maybe your overall energy or things that you should incorporate on a daily basis into your diet.
Katie Barr: Gosh, that's a really good question. Well, I think the key is protein. Obviously, we all talk a lot about protein, but the thing that I think is important to know about protein, we always go, oh, well, I gotta go to meat to get protein. And that's not necessarily the case. There's more and more information out there about legumes, and just the power that they pack. Because not only you're getting the same amount of protein, but you're also getting fiber. And fiber right now is a number one issue, especially among women who are nearing or in kind of that menopausal phase. Fiber is a key to helping us maintain a longer life. And so legumes, I think, are a really vital thing that we don't pay enough attention to, or we don't even eat on a regular basis. So there was some crazy statistic I just read about, like more than 90% of women between the ages of 30 and 60 do not eat enough fiber in their diets.
Heather Nelson: What are some other easy, yummy fiber foods? Yeah, I don't like fiber either.
Katie Barr: I was like, okay, drink that. Dates have fiber in them. So if you're making a smoothie and you're thinking about how to sweeten this up, right? So you can put dates in. Dates also in any kind of baked good, you can do, I try not to do smoothies so much because it's not good in the morning. It's really not good for your digestion because it slows it down, because it's cold, right? You're already cold, and then you're putting something cold in your body. So we're freezing it. So to think about eating warmer foods in the morning. And so lately, I've been trying different kinds of puddings. So I've been using millets and rice, right? So those also have fiber in them. And making these puddings then I'll put raisins and dates in it, and like granola, so give it a little pop. There's a lot of ways to find leafy greens that have fiber in them. If you're eating, if you love salads, like kale, if you just lightly crisp it, you're getting that fiber. That way too sweet potatoes, the skin of the sweet potatoes, not the actual inside, has fiber in it. Those are all great things, I think.
And then the second one I would say is follow the sun with your eating. When we're experiencing indigestion, when we're experiencing joint pain, when we're bloated late at night and we can't sleep a lot of the time because our digestion is not working the way it needs to be, because we just packed on this huge meal, and our metabolisms running slower because we're getting ready to finish our day. So I'm really thinking about how I can be mindful about maybe a bigger meal in the middle of the day, and it doesn't have to be a salad, right? That's the other thing is. We always go to that instant like, okay, I'm eating a salad for lunch, and that's so good for me because I'm getting these greens. But also eating vegetables that are gently cooked is great for us in the middle of the day, because it has a lasting impact, right? So we feel satiated, so we're not going to snack later is part of it. But then also, it sustains us longer. So our energy level doesn't go up and down. When we eat raw foods, we kind of do the up and down. When we eat things that are lightly cooked, then over time, we slowly absorb those nutrients, and so it takes a longer time, and so we don't have that 4:00 o'clock like, oh. my God, no.
Heather Nelson: I feel like nutrition in general is kind of overwhelming because there's all these different diets, and you should eat this, and you should not eat this, and you should snack throughout the day. And then I'm hearing, no, you interment fasting,so I feel like that's how people get off track and get drilled. Because they're like, I don't know what, where, what lane I should be.
Katie Barr: It's so true. It's so true. And there are so many diets, opinions, thoughts, and research. But I think the key thing is that, well, I would say two things around that. One, we are all different, and finding that thing that works for you, do it. If it works, great, keep doing it until it doesn't work. And then when it doesn't work, you'll have to find the new thing that works. But also, I think figuring out most of these different diets, I think they do. Most of them talk about this intermittent fasting piece, and it's not like this, oh, my gosh, I gotta starve myself throughout the day, and I'm not eating lunch anymore. It's the reverse side, so it's the sleep side, right? So if we flip the thought around intermittent fasting and we think about like, okay, the last meal of my day, I'm not going to eat after 7:00 pm, and then my next meal is not before 7:00 am, so we give our bodies a good 12 hours to do what it's supposed to do. I think that's an important piece that most research is demonstrating. We don't give our digestive system enough time to do the work it's supposed to do. We just keep putting more in. Or we get that hunger pang and we go, oh, my gosh, I'm hungry. So when it may not be that it's really hunger that we're feeling, but it might just be a mental thing. For me, I've discovered through the years that I'm a stress eater. And so when I get stressed, I think I need to eat. I'm like, I'm hungry. No, really distressed. And I've got that oral like, oh, my God, just fill it up.
Heather Nelson: Give me all the bad things too.
Katie Barr: Like, I don't want that piece of fruit right now. Thank you very much. We uncover this idea of our relationship with food because it's the same thing as money, right? We all have a relationship with money. We all have a relationship with food. And it may stem from something in your past. It may be something current, it may be something that you're striving towards. But to really get to that place where it's like, okay, this is what my relationship with food is, and this is the message that I have around food. And then if it's a negative message, how do I turn that into a positive message? So I can use food to maintain my happiness, my peace, my joy, right? Because we're not eating well, or cranky, or more angry or tired.
Heather Nelson: What would you say to the person who loves to go out to eat, because I live in Sonoma County, we have a beautiful restaurant with amazing food. What do you say around somebody? That's where I feel like I struggle sometimes. If I go out to eat, I always get derailed. I'm like, I have the bread and the desserts, and I do the things. What would be advice to somebody who lives that kind of lifestyle on how to balance that with more of a healthier one?
Katie Barr: Well, I think don't deny yourself. I think that's the first. Because I think that part of our problem is we deny ourselves to those things that it's like, ah, it's just so good at the moment. Know your limits. Okay, I don't have to eat 100 bites of this. Maybe 10 is enough, right?
Heather Nelson: Just enough to satisfy that. And that tastes so good. Okay, now, let it go.
Katie Barr: I can let it go, and I can move on. And then to back it up on the other side of the strip that I just did to Colorado. I don't have an allergy to dairy, and I am not allergic to gluten, but I choose not to eat mostly dairy or gluten just because of the way it makes me feel like I've just noticed a difference in my body. But on this trip to Colorado, coffee with cream, and we went and had pizza a couple nights. I don't like hamburgers, and I was eating all kinds of stuff that I don't normally eat. And instead of beating myself up and being like, oh, my gosh, this is so bad. I'm such a bad person for doing this, and why can't I control myself? When I get home, I'm going to go back to simpler eating. I backed it up with like, okay, today, like this morning, I ate yogurt. At lunch, I am having this tofu miso bowl that I made for dinner last night with some roasted vegetables. So going back to those simple foods that my body can just absorb and help eliminate the toxins of what I ate last week. And so it's like, okay, it's alright. I can just let that be. And because I think that's the other part of the business, we have to enjoy our lives. Eating is part of community, and part of community building. And if we're denying ourselves that, some then are not joy and peaceful and free. So I really say it's about finding the balance, and just not beating ourselves up about, why can't I control that? I shouldn't be eating this too, oh, my gosh, I enjoy this so much. Because tomorrow, I'm going to go back to the way that I know is healthy for me to eat, and it's going to be fine.
Heather Nelson: I'm not a nutritionist by any means. But one of the biggest pieces of advice that I have is that people always go, oh, it's so hard for me to eat healthier. My kids eat a bunch of junk food. I'm like, you control what food is in your house. You are the one going to the grocery store buying those things. So if you don't want them in your life, or you don't want your children to have them, then don't buy them.
Katie Barr: Don't bring them in your house. It makes it so much easier. I have to say, when it's not around me, I won't eat it. When it's around me, then it starts to hold the space in my head, and I remember it's there. And then before I know it, I'm standing in the kitchen and opening the cupboard and cookie. There's things today that I know that I wish I had known, or I had stuck to earlier in my kid's life. Because I think that's the other part. Now I've got young adult children, adults, not children, who both have watched my husband and I eat healthy over the years. But they don't make healthy choices. They're in that 20 something lifestyle and eating, my oldest son, it's kind of a funny story. Funny, not funny. He and his roommate, twice a week, go to Costco and they'll eat hot dogs and pizza there because it's cheap. He's like, it's a cheap meal. It fills me up. And then I'm good to go. And I'm like, that's quite gross. I get it. There's things that I'm kind of like, oh, my gosh. I wish I had not introduced my kid to this. But at the same time, I'm like, all right, they also have to find their way. If I have not given them options, they ate well when they ate at home. But now, they're making choices. I'm like, okay, those are probably choices I made in my 20's too, but they're not good choices for you right now. It's showing up on your face, and in different ways.
Heather Nelson: The hardest thing for me is my two older children, we share time with either split time with their other parents. And so there at their dads, they eat the sugary cereal, the candy. I see the snacks, and I'm just like, oh. And then at my house, I try not to have those things, those foods in the house. But then I find them sneaking the candy because they've taken it from dad's house to mom's house. And I say that as a parent, it is so hard because I can't control what's being, you know? I can only do so much, so I just really focus on what I can do in my own home.
Katie Barr: I think that if you're role modeling things, I think that that's a piece of it that our kids start to get a sense of. If we're role modeling things and not shaming them about their food choices, because I think that is more detrimental than that one piece of candy. It's like, okay, how do I help you understand? It's like, great, enjoy that one piece of candy. But let's talk about moderation because here are the things that this could lead to, or here's how I see you behave when you're high on sugar. So it leads to those conversations to help our kids understand, because I think that's another piece of this whole, our kids right now are the canaries in the coal mine, and so they're being pumped full of the stuff that's just not good for them, and then we wonder why we're seeing more ADHD or more behaviors at school that people are used to not be this way. And it's like, well, part of it is because we've created this society where we don't stop long enough to really cook and think about how we make things at home, and how we involve our kids in the making of those things at home. We don't have time for that anymore. So I think to just be able to have the conversation with them, here's what you're eating. Fine today. So maybe tomorrow, you're going to make a different choice. And that's good for you.
Heather Nelson: If you were talking to somebody like women our age, and they're curious about trying to incorporate some better lifestyle foods and things into their life, are there any podcasts or books that you recommend that somebody could just start learning and educating themselves on?
Katie Barr: Yeah. Oh, my gosh, there's wealth out there. There's a lot, but my go-to people are Sylvia Fountaine, so she is the mastermind. She has a partner, Tanya. I don't remember Tanya's last name, but she's the mastermind behind feasting at home, and she owned a plant based restaurant and did catering. She does both. Her recipes have both on her website, but she really has a deep understanding of food as nutrition. And then also just how to season it well. I think any meal I make from her website, I'm always like, oh, so awesome. Also, another person that I've kind of followed is Tess Masters. So she is in Australia, but she really understands nutrition at a deeper level. And on her website, she'll talk about herbs and different foods, and what it's doing in your body. So it's always good, like, I use her more as a nice encyclopedia. So when I'm thinking about the combinations of different flavors and foods that I'm putting together, I'll read what she's saying in terms of what it will do for your body. And then the woman that is teaching my Ayurveda class right now, her name is Laura Plumb, and she also has a website called Food: A Love Story. And so she has some really great blogs, a weekly blog, and has some really great insights on there as well.
Heather Nelson: I love it. Thank you, because I know everyone always wants to know where to learn, especially those readers out there. Is there anything that we didn't chat about, or anything around nutrition or health that you want to lead the listeners with today?
Katie Barr: No, that's been a great conversation. I've had a blast. So totally fun.
Heather Nelson: I think this is a new topic. I think people are wanting to learn more about it. And, gosh, you think about back in the day when everything had gluten in it, and now there's all these yummy gluten free products. And we do almond pizzas now. My husband loves it, and so it's been fun to learn and experiment, and be curious, but also enjoy the pleasures of Sonoma County. And that's what I like, balance.
Katie Barr: Yeah, yeah. It's all about balance. I think that's it. And, yeah, not shaming ourselves because we are all doing the best we can each day. And so I think it's just really trying to find that balance that we can find the joy and the love in life.
Heather Nelson: I love that. Well, thank you so much for being here. It took us a few years to get you here, but you came. I'm really excited to have you to be part of our next retreat experience. I think that's just another layer of bringing women together, learning, educating and inspiring each other. So we are happy you're part of the journey with us.
Katie Barr: I love it. Love being a part of it.
Heather Nelson: Thank you.