Education with Larkin O’Leary

“We recognize that there's a problem. We are losing teachers every day, our funding, our budgets. We cannot rely solely on teachers to advocate for themselves. We need to be the community members who stand up and advocate for our teachers, advocate for our schools, and advocate for our kids. Our community relies on all of us to come together for the greater good.” —Larkin O’Leary

Education has the power to shape the future, yet our current system often falls short of its transformative promise. Outdated practices and a lack of support for teachers and students are holding them back from reaching their full potential. It's time to completely rethink education and put inclusive, flexible, and student-focused approaches at the forefront.

Larkin O’Leary is the founder of Common Ground Society and an advocate for inclusive education. Her personal journey of raising a child with Down syndrome has fueled her mission to create a more empowering and supportive world for individuals with diverse needs.

Tune in as Heather and Larkin dive deep into the major issues plaguing our education system, the game-changing power of Universal Design for Learning, and the crucial role of community support for teachers and students. You won't want to miss this one!

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Episode Highlights:

01:35 What is Common Ground Society? 

06:29 The Universal Design for Learning

14:32 Challenges in the School System 

17:34 Future of Education and Specialty Schools 

26:46 The Impact of Trauma  

27:30 Inclusion and Mindset Shift  

42:25 Advocacy and Community Support

Resources: 

Podcast

Life Conversations With a Twist: My Why Behind Starting A Nonprofit with Larkin O'leary 

Transcript

Heather Nelson: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to this week's Life Conversations With A Twist. I'm very excited to have my friend Larkin on. If you are a fellow follower of my podcast, you will know that Larkin has actually been on my podcast. I think it was Season 1. I think it's been a minute. 

Larkin O'Leary: Yeah, I agree. I think it has been when you and I, that's how we first met, actually. That was our first interaction, too. 

Heather Nelson: That was our first interaction, and then we instantly fell in love, were great friends now, and did lots of fun things together. And each other's biggest cheerleaders. But Larkin came on and talked more about how she started a nonprofit called Common Ground Society. We talked about how that came about, and her journey through having a child with disabilities. So fast forward again, it's probably like two years, maybe, ago, she's still running Common Ground Society. I'm super honored to be part of the gala planning this year for her fundraiser. And literally, she's such a badass in our community. And I just love everything you're doing, and you're literally going to change the world, and I know it. I don't know why it takes so long. Why is it so hard to wake up and it's all better? That's my question. 

Larkin O'Leary: I don't understand why it's so hard. We all want the world to be a better place. Why is it not yet? 

Heather Nelson: So for somebody who wasn't listening to the first podcast, can you just give a little overview, a little bit about Common Ground Society. What are you guys doing in the community? And then we're gonna parlay into why I even wanted you back on it again today. 

Larkin O'Leary: Yeah. So I am Sonoma County, born and raised. I went to Chico to get my teaching credential because I love kids, and I have always wanted to be a teacher since 4th grade when I had a teacher, Mrs. Fisher, who took the time to create a connection with me. And ever since then, I was all in to do what she did for me for others. And then I taught 3rd grade, 5th grade, 7th and 8th grade. I taught preschool before that, and I realized that I love all kids. There's another grade that I could say is my favorite. And then when my son was born, he was born with Down Syndrome, and he had a lot of health issues so I ended up having to take leave and eventually resign from teaching despite my district being beyond supportive of my attempts at clawing at my job. And when I did that, my son's preschool asked us to come in and do a presentation for World Down Syndrome Day. I was like, teach kids? Yes, I'm in. And long story short, that small presentation about Down Syndrome morphed into a presentation about multitudes, a multitude of disabilities, invisible and visible disabilities, and how to be the one to just smile and say hi, and get to know people we perceive as different. We also do family support at Common Ground Society. 

So although James was born with Down syndrome, and there's an incredible Down Syndrome Community here, I was dealing with something very different. James comes home with the G-Tube for a while on oxygen. He had an NG tube. I learned how to do syringes and all sorts of different things. I felt like I connected more with the families who had kids that were medically complex so I started a small Facebook group, and we'd meet for donuts and discussion. And then that turned into family play dates. And now, here we are with 10 different touch points a month for families who have kids, 0 to 100, and loved ones with disabilities. And we do a variety of meetups. We do hospital bags and grief support for families who have lost their loved ones. It's really taken a turn that I never thought it would. I've even done a TED Talk, which is just like, I don't know what's happening, but it's happening. 

Heather Nelson: I'm like, can I just be your co-pilot when you go on big stages and I just be there to support you. I love what you're doing, and I am gonna get a little plugged in. If anybody's listening and wants to be a sponsor or part of the gala that's coming up on April 26, we would be more than happy to have you. The event itself has grown in such a great way, and I just can't wait to see where it goes from here. So that was my little plug for some money from our local community. 

Larkin O'Leary: I love that. Thank you. 

Heather Nelson: So you have this amazing nonprofit, which is four years in the making. 

Larkin O'Leary: This year, it will be five years as a nonprofit, and then we started in 2018 before we became a nonprofit. But yeah, five years as a nonprofit, so crazy. 

Heather Nelson: I think my favorite thing that you guys do is go into schools and educate the schools about being the one and be smiling and inclusive, and this whole belonging, what would you call it? Movement? Because I think that's super important. And so that is Larkin in a nutshell. If you want to learn more, she's like an open book. You can always grab her for coffee or a glass of wine. She likes that too. But what kind of sparked me having her back on the podcast is she had posted, she does many reels, and she's very active on social media. But she was talking about, I was like, trying to remember what it was about, but it was basically something about how our school system needs major overload. Because I'm a mom with children, and I'm definitely very much involved in the community and the schools, hearing parents talk and watching people talk on social media, I thought it would be fun to have a conversation about our school system right now, especially here in Sonoma County. Santa Rosa is about to do some major school closures, and there's so much to talk about. So here we are. We're gonna have the conversation. Larkin and I were just chatting the other day, and we had a really good conversation about Universal Design for Learning. I jotted that down as something that I really wanted to kick off with. Can you talk a little bit about what that is? What does that mean for you? And how would that be in our school system?

Larkin O'Leary: Yeah. So the best way to describe universal design for learning, for me, has always been using those curb cuts as a way to talk about it. Because when we think about those curb cuts, they're made for people in wheelchairs to be able to access our community. But who else do they help? Runners, skateboarders, people with strollers, the list is endless. That simple modification that allowed access, in turn, helps so many others. And the same thing in education. Some of the support my son might need to be able to access his education in turn could help so many other kids. Having a visual schedule of what's going to be happening, maybe having a timer that shows how much longer a lesson is going to be. So it's based on three principles, multiple means of expression. How do you get the words out there? Are you giving a lecture? Are they reading it in a book? Are they watching a movie about it? And then multiple means of engagement, so it is capturing their interest. So how are we going to make kids vested in what we're trying to teach them? Because I'll tell you what, kids aren't super pumped about learning about the American Revolution. Let me just throw that out there. When I taught 8th grade, that was not something that the kids came in like, teach me. You know it wasn't. And then multiple means of expression. So how you are assessing their knowledge of what you've taught them. 

So for James, for example, one of the things that is hard for him is verbal communication. And in one of his grades, he was assigned to learn sight words. And he's a smart kid. He learns really quickly, and reading is easier for him than math. So his teacher handed me this packet. I was like, he doesn't know any of his sight words. I'm gonna need you to practice those at home. And I'm like, okay, sure. That's strange, but okay. So we go home and I practice them with him, and I'm like, well, he knows all of these words. So I go back and the teacher and I have a great relationship, and it's always problem solving, right? Because we're always trying to learn and be understanding that we all learn in different ways, and that's one of the blessings we've had in James's education. And I said, how are you assessing his ability to communicate, his sight words? And she said, well, he can't say them. 

And in my mind, I thought, well, he can't speak. You're currently assessing the way he communicates, you are not assessing his knowledge of the sight words. And it's really something we have to wrap our minds around as teachers when we're talking about assessment, because we are doing something the way we've always done it, because that's the way we've always done it. It is kind of what we do. We're scared to go outside the box. And so this teacher wasn't, though she was amazing and we talked about it, and I was like, what about if we put all the words out as an array, and then you say the word, and he picks the correct word that will show you his knowledge of the sight words. And she did. And not only would that help James, who is not speaking. Believe me, he speaks a lot. He's very hard, not intelligible when he speaks. Think about it, it would help like English language learners who can read but can't pronounce the words. It would help a kid who's having a bad day and grumpy, and doesn't want to talk, and can snap, snatch up the words. It can help so many other people. And so that's kind of the basis of Universal Design for Learning, and how I think it's important in our system. 

Heather Nelson: Is the system currently doing that? 

Larkin O'Leary: So in California, we are like number 43 out of 47 reporting states and inclusive practices, and using Universal Design for Learnings is one of those really good, best practices. There are some schools that are doing it. There are teachers that are unknowingly doing it because they understand this method, but not a lot. The Sonoma County Office of Education offered a cohort for universal design for learning, but I heard that just got cut. Unfortunately, I could be wrong. But that was like what someone recently said to me. I haven't had time to investigate quite yet, and it's just sad that our teachers, our support staff, our kids, our families, our parents, this affects everyone. 

Heather Nelson: Absolutely, one of the conversations that we had that you had mentioned and touched on, it is like, how people learn, some people are more visual, some people are audio, some prefer reading. Everybody learns in different ways. And it's so interesting how I feel times have changed. When we were going to school, we were all put in the same box, and nobody said that they had learning disabilities, or maybe they did. I guess it just wasn't noticed. But I feel like more and more people are like, they're autistic or and have ADHD, these learning disabilities now are coming up, and it's more and more common. We're trying to be very, but it's like, how do we feel the school system is embracing those disabilities? 

Larkin O'Leary: The teachers themselves are who I'm speaking for. I feel like they don't have any other choice but to feel frustrated and fed up because they are not supported. Even if they were given a lesson in Universal Design for Learning, they're not supported afterwards. So let me first say that people don't get into education for the money. People get into education for the love of kids, for the aha moment. Our teachers that we feel maybe are not doing a good job, it's not because they don't love your kids, it's that they are set up to fail in the system that hasn't changed in 100 years. And adding every year, teachers are asked to do something different. So not only are they now counselors and school psychologists and all the all the things, but now every year, they're asked to shift to a new curriculum, learn a new standards and all of these different things. It's understandable that they are overwhelmed. People who don't understand Universal Design for Learning think of it as one more thing. When in reality, it's what will make teaching fun again. When I taught 8th grade US history, I used to do a menu for students because the teacher or what they used to do was, every student would write an essay about the 10 events leading up to the American Revolution. Okay, I'm assessing US history. So what that would do is the students who were bad at writing essays would fail every time. I would never know what they actually know about the 10 Events leading up to the American Revolution because I couldn't read it, because they couldn't write an essay, right? 

And so I sort of flipped the switch on that and gave them menu choices. Do you want to tell me about the events leading up to the American Revolution? Do you want to make a poster about it? Do you want to make a little thing comparing the most important event leading up to the American Revolution and the least event? Do you want to take a multiple choice test or write an essay? I had these two girls that were twin chefs in my class, and I always left a square for, if you have a good idea, bring it to me and let's talk about it. So they made 10 recipes of the events leading up to the American Revolution where they added a little pepper here, a little spice here, a little salt, right? And it was amazing because they did something that was motivating to them. They told me, they were like, I'm gonna forever remember this lesson because these are now going to be in my new cookbook. It was incredible. And when we reach people, when we meet people where they're at, I really believe that they're gonna go the distance. They're gonna go farther, they're gonna care. 

Heather Nelson: So interesting when you talk about what the teachers are up against in a classroom, and the other thing that you'd even mention is that most of the classes are overstaffed. Not over staffed, populated. And so teachers are now having, I think my son had 32 kids in his class last year. Kindergarten class has 24 kids. 

Larkin O'Leary: Kindergartners now are expected to learn to read.

Heather Nelson: And not even you're teaching them, but like you said, you're also their counselor. And then you have to deal with a child who has a broken family. And now you're dealing with two parents and you're almost dealing with all the social and outside stuff that these children are going through on a day to day. And then now, you have bullying. And now they're scared of getting shouted at. And they're not getting (inaudible) we're expected to lead and educate our children to be the future of this country and world. These poor teachers aren't even given the right tools. 

Larkin O'Leary: And anytime they ask for it, or they ask for support, our community is like, oh, teachers. And none of you would be where you are without teachers. I don't understand this belief that teachers are so little because it is like teachers should be at the top of everything. Doctors can't be doctors without teachers. Lawyers can't be lawyers without teachers. Our system is so backwards, and we're losing teachers every year because of it. And it's sad.

Heather Nelson: I saw it happen in my son's school where they had to create another class because the classes are overpopulated. They brought in another teacher, and then they were all hand picked. Children were hand picked out of classrooms, and parents were upset. And then you have parents that are upset because they don't like the new teacher. We don't get to pick our bosses. We don't get to pick who is teaching us. Let them do what they need to do, and let them figure it out together. But I just hear so much rumbling, and you nailed the head on a lot of this. He said to you when we're talking about this, I'm like, how do we change this? This is probably one of the biggest problems in our society. I would love to hear what you said. If you had the magic wand and we could do it over, how would you see the school system? 

Larkin O'Leary: Hey, thanks for asking, Heather. That's a great question. First of all, everyone always talks about how the system is so hard to change. It's impossible. We can't change the system. The only way to change the system is to change the system. We can't just sit here and keep complaining about it. We have to do something. We have to shift something because it's very clear that it's not working. So my dream for education, what I see being the best route is if we were to TK through 3rd grade, focus really on those foundational skills of reading, writing and basic math, and as well as the biggest component being how to be a human being, how to socialize, how to be kind, how to be empathetic, all of those things are so important. Because as much as we want to say that school is about academics, it's also about building community. This is the kids' real life. That is their community. That's what they do all day. And then in 4th grade, we could focus more on the things that students are interested in. So I could teach history, language or social science, writing, and reading through music. I could teach it through rebuilding an engine in a car. I could teach it through architecture. I could teach it through music. I could teach it through anything. You can teach it through anything. And when you get buy-in from kids on what they want to learn about, you'll get those. I wonder why? Let me figure it out, versus I don't care about this. So I don't care about WHY, and it's what we really need to be doing is trying to build those lifelong learners, curiosity and kids. Because to be honest, we're not only up against everything else in the world. And then we didn't even mention technology. (inaudible) today I wanted to be on my phone. She found this little game where she can cut tomatoes with her finger. And she's like, look how good I'm getting mom. And I'm like, Honey, that's not real cutting. She's like, no, it's just practice. And I'm like, would you like a knife? And would you like to practice on something, a banana or whatever that is real. She's like, I'm so sorry you didn't have these games when you were little. And I was like, I'm not sorry. I didn't watch kids play with toys. I play with toys. 

Heather Nelson: Oh, my God. So 4th, you to like 6th would be leaning into-- 

Larkin O'Leary: I think 4th on. And allowing kids to sort of, of course, that would be a really hard thing to have all these different projects going and different things happening. If you're going to be reading, like when I taught 8th grade history, I was like reading 180 essays, that's pretty boring. But to read an essay and then to watch a short film someone made, and to have all of these different things makes it a little bit more fun for teachers as well. One of the things that's hard as a teacher, again, is focusing, grading and assessing on the topic you're actually teaching. So when a kid gets marked down for having a messy paper or not having a pencil in class, or not writing an essay and writing form, that's not actually the knowledge that you're assessing. It's just kind of a mindset shift that we need to make, and it would make teaching so much more easier and fun for everyone. But it's that mindset shift. The mindset shift is the biggest part. And that's one of the things that I'm really passionate about and working on. 

Heather Nelson: How as a parent would it feel to be like, your kid's so excited to go to school today because they get to learn about the things that they want to learn about, or the way that they want to learn. I had mentioned this concept with another friend of mine, and she was like, well, what if the poor teacher now has to learn how to teach people in different ways? And I'm like, no, it could be an assessment where this teacher teaches visual learners. You know what I mean? I'm like, there's a way to get around it so then everyone in the class is running at the same pace instead of not. 

Larkin O'Leary: You will elicit that curiosity within kids to have them figure it out themselves, and problem solve that builds such problem solving skills. So you have a standard that you have to teach. Your standard is teaching the colors, or teaching something, whatever. You can talk to kids about that. You teach to the standard, but the kids show what they know in a variety of different ways. It's not like you have to reinvent an entire curriculum for a bunch of people, but you should have all of those different components in your lessons. You should have a visual component, auditory component, and a kinesthetic thing. That is what we've always been taught to do. It's hard, though. But it's incremental work. Not every lesson right now, you need to shift, but start adding visuals to a lesson. You read the story on a video for your students one time, a chapter in the history book. As the days, months and years go on, that incremental work will build up a curriculum that's ready. And this is the other part that I wish, and I've been pushing for, that we have like a cohort of people who are vested in this. Because if we had all the third grade teachers in Sonoma County come together and develop their curriculum or problem solved together, everyone would do one lesson and then they could work together and share the information versus all these were siloed, oftentimes, in teaching. And my favorite part of teaching was being like, okay, so what if we do this lesson. And then my teaching partner would be like, oh, that's great. And then I'd be like, oh, gosh, I love that. It just builds this excitement and incredible lesson, and that's the teacher's gift. That's why they are teachers because they get excited about that aha moment, and finding it for their kids, and watching their kids be excited to learn. And this is a new shift in teaching that we just gotta jump in and try. We gotta just try and see.

Heather Nelson: That's the worst that's gonna happen at this point. How do you feel about all these specialty schools? I'm going to give my example of where I came from. I go to school. I learned about all the things. We all had to take the same types of courses, like math, and this, and that's where I think it's great. I think now, when a child is going from high school to college, there's this weird transition where they feel like they have to go to college because mom went to college. Or what society wants you to do is go to a four year college and do, do, do, do. But now we have all these amazing programs like CTE, where kids could go off because they want to learn the trades. Or they want to go to culinary school, they want to go to hospitality school. How do we encourage the change in that of letting a child lean into their future, what they truly want to do. 

Larkin O'Leary: That's a great question. That is a parenting thing that we all have to do and reconcile that. To be honest, the majority of people who didn't go to college are making way more money than I am. I went to a four year college, and then I got my teaching credentials. A lot of people who go to college oftentimes don't even end up using those skills. For me, college was important because I wanted to be a teacher, and that's what it takes. But I truly believe that kids need to be following the path of what is important to them. So there are some kids that college is the way, and that's what they need and want to do. And that's great. My friend that I present with, she always calls herself, she's like the math nerd. She and I are very much not that. We are very different people, that we're doing the same thing. And so it's a societal shift that we need to make, again, in mindset about what's important, and I love to see it. I see it happening. We've got a lot of those nonprofits happening. 

The (inaudible) foundation is another one, where kids can go and start in the trade. Because school is not for everyone. Especially the way we are doing it right now. It's just not. It wasn't for me. I had ADHD. The reason I became a teacher was Mrs. Fisher noted like, first through 3rd grade, kindergarten through 3rd grade, medium preschool, I got that daily note home. I know it's shocking, but I was a little sassy in class. I just talked all the time. I had a hard time paying attention. And it wasn't until Mrs. Fisher took the time to be like, something is a little off here. And so got me some tutoring to help me with those skills. And since then, I got good grades, but I still didn't enjoy school until I got to college. Until I got to college and I learned about the things I wanted to learn about, how to teach children and the way that they develop, and all of those things were super interesting to me. I got great grades in college, much better than I did in high school, in elementary school, middle school because I cared about what I was learning about. 

Heather Nelson: It's an interesting perspective of, like, pivoting how you are as a parent, how you teach your children, and what you lean into. I tell my kids all the time, if that's what you want to do, that's great. I'm not going to force you to go to college, or I'm not going to. If you don't want to go, don't go. Obviously, I want you to do something. You're not going to sit at home with video games all the time, at least try and get paid to do that, right? Which they can now, very good money. What other issues besides like this do you see are happening currently in the classroom? 

Larkin O'Leary: So we've talked about how there's the trauma with the fires, the floods, the pandemic. We've got all of those kids who have experienced so many things on top of worrying about school safety drills and all of those different things that can impact learning, not to mention those are collective traumas. Those aren't even traumas considering individual traumas and things that kids go through on a daily basis. And it's interesting to think about how, when we go into a school like, I have a bad day every now and then, I'm grumpy and I don't want to do what you tell me to do. And I'm allowed to do that. I'm allowed to be upset as an adult. But as kids, we don't always allow that. We suck it up, like it's okay. And I think that, again, that mindset shift with that piece and honoring feelings, particularly with this generation of kids that has a harder time with that, and who for a long time were isolated and became more dependent on social media, screens and things like that, and honoring that as a way to move forward and adjust it as necessary. Having too many kids in the classroom, not enough support, parents aren't able to support their kids at home with the learning because they get home from work and school, and then they have the rush of the world. And we want them to be a family. We don't want them to sit there and struggle with their child on common core math and how to get the worksheet done. We want them to have open, honest conversations with their families. But we don't allow that. 

And what we don't realize is, I mean, we do realize, but our parents are working sometimes one or two jobs. There's not a stay at home person for most families these days,in order to survive. We all are constantly stressed. And so that family component is tough, which then in turn makes for the community component. Tough. School is not just about academics, about building that community, and when people don't have the bandwidth to create community and be kind to one another and be mindful. I think about the school drop off line like, Lord, help me. Everyone is gonna get honked up, get run over, everybody's yelling. It's a whole thing. But again, that piece that we are all so stressed and so fast paced these days that it's hard to slow down and take a minute, and realize our community is our community from the kids who need the most support, right? Like my son James, he's fully included in his 4th grade class to the kids who need the most challenge. Because let's be honest, the kids that are achieving above and beyond, they also get left out. 

There's this great video by this woman, Shelley Moore, and she talks about this bowling analogy. Whereas teachers were taught to bowl to the head pins, we're taught to teach the middle and then hopefully we'll get the biggest bang for our buck. But there's always the 7/10 split possibility. The kids need the most support, and the kids are the most challenging. And generally, we'll get one more chance to help one of them out. But there's always one that's left standing. And with Universal Design for Learning, it allows for kids to be able to learn the way they need to learn. And she teaches too that the pins that are the hardest to reach. So when she talks about how she talked to the bowler, about how he was hitting, strikes the whole time, and it's because he changed his aim, and he aimed for the pins that were the hardest to hit. And so when you have those scaffolds in place for kids like James, it also helps the other kids in the class. And then the kids who don't need those scaffolds, you can take it one further. But you can not have those scaffolds there in place. And so that's a big part of it. I think the mindset around inclusion is a huge part of the problem here in Sonoma County. 

There was apparently a meeting that happened where a parent said, we need to talk about the elephant in the room, special education kids, because they're basically like the monkey on the back of the normal kids. Now, that person clearly does not understand budgeting for schools and what that means. And that person very much doesn't understand any of it. Because as a teacher, even without having a kid with a disability in my class, I had kids that were down here, and I had kids that were up here. There's never a class that is all right here. And so it's a mindset shift that my son is taken away from your kids, right? What my son offers to your kids is way more than money can offer. And there's like 50 years of research on the fact that when kids with disabilities are educated with their non disabled peers, it benefits every single person in the class. I think all of it is just a mindset shift on, we all have something beautiful to offer this world if only we are brave enough to recognize it well. 

Heather Nelson: And I think a lot of it comes down to, again, sorry parents, but part of your responsibility as a parent is to teach your children to be kind and to say hello, and to not judge and not discriminate, and to be open to every human being as a beautiful human being. I think if you teach that within your home and in your everyday environment, that is huge when they go to school.

Larkin O'Leary: To be honest, the reason I think our nonprofit has been so successful and our conversations are so impactful is because I am willing to admit that before I had my son, I didn't believe that. I didn't understand it because I didn't have a connection. If you don't have a connection to something or someone, like a disability, they will be othered. You cannot see them as anything other than like they're the helpee, and I'm the helper. But my son has changed my life completely in so many different ways. I obviously would do anything to make this world easier for him. That's literally my life's purpose in the world these days, to make the world a better place for my son and people with disabilities, and everybody to feel like they belong. Because even as a neurotypical middle class, I went to a Hidden Valley, I went to a good school, my parents had money, but I didn't feel like I belonged. I sometimes still don't feel like I belong. 

And when I don't feel that way, it's hard to make progress in life, in society and things like that. And so it's interesting to me that we all have this desire to belong. Yet, we try to take it away from other people that we don't feel are good enough, worthy. We try to take it away from people who don't feel worthy of belonging. We're all different. The world needs all kinds of people. I could go speak to 750 people in an audience, no problem. But you don't want me doing your taxes. Believe me, I probably don't even want me doing your budget. I have a hard time with that, but I'm good at other things. And my son is the same way. He has a hard time with speaking, but he can make you smile, and he is empathetic. He is the first person to run to someone if they're hurt. He's an incredible dancer. The singing is a little much. It's quite loud, but he loves it, and he's getting better at it-ish. So it takes recognizing the fact that we're all different, and our world needs all different types of people. And all kids are our kids. I need you just as much as you need me, and I need your kids just as much as your kids need me. 

Heather Nelson: I just feel like there's probably so much joy in your home just because James just doesn't see things in a negative way. He's always positive. I'm just assuming based on our conversation. And when you said he dances and he sings,s and everyone can just be who they are, I feel like it probably changes the dynamic in the household. I think of my children, and everyone's walking--

Larkin O'Leary: I definitely will say that James definitely feels a wide range of emotions. And there's definitely yelling and screaming, and he and his sister fight all the time. But in the same respect, he doesn't see the world the way we do. I don't know that he has yet to discover the way people are looking at him. They're not trying to engage him sometimes, and it was easier when he was little. He was cute, and he's still little and cute, but what happens when he becomes a teenager and an adult. If he's like 7th and 8th grade? And those kids, 7th and 8th graders are just weird. There's weird looking, and they're weird smelling, and they're weird everything, and so that's going to be compounded for my son who looks different than the neurotypical population. But what if we continue to embrace him? I worry that the school, there is no place for James at this point that I would feel comfortable sending him for 7th and 8th grade. I don't know that. 

We're all of his friends from Rincon Valley. If he went to Rincon Valley, I don't know that they would have the things he needs. So then maybe he's going to need to go to Slater, but nobody knows him there. He's going to be torn away from all of his friends, all of his community and people that, I mean, we walk onto campus and he's like the mayor of madrone kissing babies and shaking hands. And it terrifies me a little that he's not going to have that community surrounding him who loves him. And even as far as next year, our district is getting rid of all the behaviorists, all the counselors, all these different budget cuts that they're making, which again, takes away that support that teachers need to survive. They can't do all these jobs, and so we really need to be thinking about how we're setting our society up for our future, because these kids are the ones that can be taking care of you and I. You do realize that. If we're setting them up for not being good community members, that's only going to affect us later on in life. When they're like, yeah, you just go to that home. I don't know. I might come visit you. Maybe I'll FaceTime you. Because we don't do actual human interaction anymore. You know what I mean? 

Heather Nelson: Yeah. So true. When you are becoming a teacher and going through schooling and stuff, do they teach you how to have children in your classroom that need a little extra attention? Or do they not? 

Larkin O'Leary: Such a great question. So there's two different types of credentials, which is unfortunate. I feel like everyone should have the same credential. I do understand that some should maybe have a certificate for more highly involved students, and I also would like to preface that. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be special day classes at all. But what happens in teacher school? So there's general education teachers, and then there's special ed teachers. The unfortunate part about those two titles is what it sounds like. I teach the general education students and you teach the special education students. In fact, it's wrong, our credential states what we teach, not who we teach. So it's a different mindset. And then the problem is in our general education class courses, all courses on academics and development and that sort of thing, and one class on behavior and how to do that. Whereas in special education, it is all classes and behavior, and one course in curriculum and how to teach that. And so with the state of our children these days, I don't understand what the hold up is for us to understand that we all need to understand how to teach these kids with these magnificent behaviors. Because it's happening more and more, and more, and more, and more. I mean, going into my daughter's kindergarten class, I'm like, oh, Nelly, there's a lot in here. And James has an incredible class. I attribute a lot of it to the fact that they have learned patience and all of those, and empathy and things like that because James is in their class. Every year, I get told what a great class the kids are. I forget your question, but I think I answered it. 

Heather Nelson: You didn't answer it, yet, about how they educate. You and I were talking, you're like, the whole system just needs to be blown up and restarted over. How do you even do that? Because every day, we're learning. Maybe it happens during the summer, blows up next year, everything's going to be different. But this is a huge undertaking of change, and that's what you're saying. Or people need to support it more, and want to be part of it. 

Larkin O'Leary: It's such a shame that we didn't take better advantage of the pandemic. We very well could have had the pandemic happen and then come back to teaching in a different way, but we didn't. We just pulled out our May folders again and got started on what we do every year. 

Heather Nelson: They're just on the computers even more now. Literally, they had to bring a laptop to school. I'm like, do you even use it? And you're just going to carry it back and forth, I don't know. It's bizarre to me. I would love to get to a place, especially because I have children, and they enjoy going back to school. Both of them today. Wouldn't it be so great if they're like, Mom, let's go. We got to go to school. Things are going to be a tweet. 

Larkin O'Leary: And that's the same for my kids. It's unfortunate. The only reason (inaudible) is excited this morning is because she had a play date this weekend. She couldn't wait to stay with friends. But everything else, she loves her teacher. And James, the problem too is that James loves his people. He's like the mayor. He loves going in the people. But I just don't know that he's being exactly met where he's at and understood. I think he still is being looked at as a kid with down syndrome, not James. And believe me, he has an incredible team. He has people that work so hard to make sure that he has access. But sometimes, I think even I miss the mark in how to support him, or how to believe in him. I think there's a lot of like, I sometimes feel like I'm the one that holds him back. We've been told that epicenter, for example, that he could go do like a soccer class with kids there. But I'm always like, oh, I don't know. And then I'm like, why am I doing that? Why don't I go to camp? Why do I not even try? I'm just like, no, he can't do it. I don't know. It's my mindset. 

Heather Nelson: In a mindset, but it's also trusting in the system. You don't believe in trust in the system. You don't have confidence that he's going to go to a soccer camp and he's going to feel safe, and the coach is going to know how to interact with him. Because that's how our society has made us feel, unfortunately. I think it's changing, but it's gonna take a lot of work. Is there anything during this conversation that we didn't talk about, or anything else that you would love to mention for our community? 

Larkin O'Leary: I think that we recognize that there's a problem. We are losing teachers every day, our funding, our budgets. All these things are a problem, and we cannot rely solely on teachers to advocate for themselves. We need to be the community members who stand up and advocate for our teachers, advocate for our schools, advocate for our kids. Our community relies on all of us to come together for the greater good, and I can't do this without you. And believe me, parents like me who have been constantly advocating just for my child to belong, I'm exhausted. And teachers who have been advocating for your kids to be supported, they're exhausted. Stand up, quit the bitch on social media, get out there and make a difference in a way that is tangible. Write letters, show up to school board meetings, do your part, and I think that we can slowly make progress and make change. 

Heather Nelson: I love that. I'm telling you guys, this woman is going to change the world. I know it, I feel it. It's not going to happen overnight, but I know you have the drive and the passion behind it. I'm here to support you and all the things, so I appreciate you again for coming back on. I'm sure there'll be another amazing topic we will talk about at some point. Well, I know we personally have lots of conversations, but I will definitely put in the show notes how everyone can reach out to you to follow Common Ground Society. And again, thank you for everything you're doing in this community. 

Larkin O'Leary: Well, thank you for having me, and thank you for being the BFF I've always needed. And I can't wait to see how we change the world, because you're now part of this, my friend.

Heather Nelson: I'm here for it. I'll see you soon.