Life Conversations with a Twist
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Life Conversations with a Twist
South Asian Women In America, Whose Professional Lives Have Been Upended By The Restrictive H-4 Visa with Varuni Sinha
S3 Ep6 Episode Shownotes:
“Make a list of the good versus the bad. [You] will realize that the mind tends to gravitate towards the bad, but the list of good is always longer.” —Varuni Sinha
The H-4 visa— the bane of many immigrant spouses' existence. Imagine being highly skilled, educated, and eager to work, only to be trapped in a legal limbo, unable to contribute your talents.
The H-4 visa stripped Varuni Sinha of her independence and sense of self, plunging her into a deep depression. She went from being a vibrant, driven woman to one who struggled to even leave her apartment. Now, she's using her powerful storytelling abilities to share her own journey as an immigrant spouse.
Prepare to be inspired, uplifted, and maybe even shed a tear or two in this week’s heartfelt conversation. Varuni's story of resilience, self-discovery, and finding her voice in the face of adversity is a must-listen for anyone seeking a dose of empowerment.
Connect with Heather:
Episode Highlights:
01:46 Giving Writing a Second Shot
08:52 Immigrant Challenges
20:43 In The Darkest Moments and Out
26:21 Where Our Pain Comes From
35:07 If You Don't Write Your Story Now...
41:54 Be Part of the Change
47:31 Beyond Writing
50:22 What is Love?
Heather Nelson: Welcome everyone to this week's Life Conversations With a Twist. I say this every time, and I literally say this every time that I am excited for the guests that I have on. I have Varuni on. She reached out to me because she stumbled upon my podcast, and I instantly started stalking her and her story. I'm like, yes, we've never had this conversation on the show. This topic is very near and dear to my heart, being that my husband is Hispanic and is not from this country. So thank you so much for being here. I cannot wait to dive in and hear everything you have going on, so welcome.
Varuni Sinha: I'm so happy to be here and to talk to you as well.
Heather Nelson: I love when I meet women who have gone through something either traumatic or hard, because this is why I've started this podcast. So many people are writing books about their journey, and you've done the same. I can't wait to hear what inspired that. So take us back, give us a little bit of history of where you are today, how you got here, and let's just dive right in.
Varuni Sinha: I'm essentially a writer. I'm a New York based writer. I have worked for magazines like Time Out New York. I have also worked for Guggenheim for smaller trade publications and newspapers back home in India. I was a copywriter, so people who just create all the content for advertising agencies. That was my job. I did work for Yamaha, Panasonic and all that. Absolutely loved it. I was also trying to impress my parents, especially my dad who is an academic. So I switched tracks and got into that, and taught race and politics through literature, which I think was a nice way to kind of be ready for what's going to happen to me when I come to America. Just understand that way more deeply. I was teaching Harlem Renaissance before I found myself in New York City and also in Harlem, surprisingly, seven to eight years after. But my story really begins with a very simple tale of falling in love. I guess these days, everybody finds it really hard because the dating culture has become so open. You can say it's just really hot. So I was in India. My husband was here, and we had run into our respective dead ends before we happened to meet each other online. And he was very surprised that I was, I think I was 23 and a half or 24 when I was very serious that I'm not going to date anyone casually. He is five years older than me, so he was like, are you absolutely sure?
But I think what really attracted him to me, and me to him was that we both were (inaudible). We're very intelligent people. I find his commitment to his work very inspiring. He's a stroke doctor. His father had a stroke when he was really young. His father really did not heal from that trauma, so he was brought up by a single mom. So to say, his father is still alive, but impacted by that. That's why he chose to become a doctor. So very poor circumstances and very difficult circumstances made the man that he is today. And he was also very attracted to my creativity and my ambition. So the reason why we actually yoked together was that we saw this spark of trying to do something more than just who we are for other people. And that's why he was so interested in me. Like I told you, I was in academics, and he could see that I was still regretting having left writing. And so the reason also why I moved to America after three years of dating was because I wanted to give writing a real shot. And I truly believe that America is a place where dreams come true, and they would for me as well, and so I took that leap of faith in 2013.
Heather Nelson: Yeah, just a quick question. You lived in India. He lived in New York, born and raised in the United States.
Varuni Sinha: He was raised in India. He's been in America now for 21 or 22 years. So more than two decades. I have been in America now for 11 years. We both were born in India.
Heather Nelson: What are the odds that you're born in the same country, obviously across the map, meet each other and come together, which I think is such a cool story. It's funny that you say, one of the questions I was going to ask you, and you just answered it. My daughter's doing a research project of how her family came here, because not everyone was from the United States. Everyone has come from everywhere. And so my daughter's like diving into each one of our stories. And one of the questions was, she had to ask, like my grandparents was, why did they come to the United States? And it's literally the same answer, because this is where all the dreams happen. And here, this is where we can actually make things happen, which is funny.
Varuni Sinha: I really wanted to give writing a full fledged chance because I was compromising on my dreams by trying to impress my dad.
Heather Nelson: The culture is different assuming they want you to be in a certain hierarchy, or they want you to be in a certain career, but that was definitely not something that was in your path.
Varuni Sinha: My story is pretty interesting. My parents are very liberal and very progressive. It's just that both my parents are very successful academics. So he valued academics to be a place of prestige. I grew up in an environment where I could choose to be anybody I wanted, and it's only when I hit that crisis in love that I actually walked up to my father. I asked him, Dad, this is not working out for me. I keep meeting the wrong guys. Can you help arrange a marriage? So I asked him to arrange an arranged marriage for me. He told me, this is what you do with all the freedom and the liberty that we've given to you. And frankly speaking, I was very disappointed. And his words came back to haunt me years later in America.
Heather Nelson: Okay, so you meet your husband. He's in New York. You guys dated long distance for three years. What made you finally decide to take the leap of faith to move here?
Varuni Sinha: His world was very different from mine. Mine was slow based art, writing, creative stuff. Even academics is much slower than the job of a stroke surgeon. He's always on the go. He's very busy from three weeks up to four weeks. Sometimes he can be on crazy call hours. I think the way we met, we met through an online platform. I started writing letters to him, and we would speak on the phone. But he hardly had any time to even come in front of a computer. So it was almost like a taste of old fashioned love in the modern era, and that really helped us understand who we are on the inside as opposed to just getting carried away with a fling, or things which do not stand the stand of time. So at one point, we became so yoked into each other's worlds that it just didn't make sense. So I was like, fine. If one of us has to move, I guess this is the challenge that life is throwing my way to really be with the guy that I love, but also give my profession a real chance. My true dream a real chance, which is writing,
Heather Nelson: Before we hopped on, we talked about the whole visa, and how somebody can even come here, and how they can stay here. Talk about your experience and what that process looked like for you.
Varuni Sinha: So my husband is on something which is called the H-1b visa. There are lots of highly skilled, mostly south Asians, and out of that category. Mostly Indians who in the year 1990 were brought to America to build the IT sector, the Silicon Valley, the NASA program, doctors, engineers. Many people that you go to when you visit hospitals happen to be Indians, because these are the people who were brought in. And prior to that, there was each class which existed, each class of visa workers. They were mostly temporary workers, which means that they were here for a couple of months. It didn't make sense for them for a couple of months to try and bring their spouses or their children, right? So it was just structured in such a way that it wouldn't allow, even if you brought in the spouses, that would be an extraordinary expense for that worker. So that's the history. But with H-1B in 1990, you can't bring a doctor for a couple of months. He has to set up a practice, which at least has to be two to three years long for the whole process. So they spoke about it being like a family reunification program as well, which means that the spouses could be brought. I'm using the word HE because most of these individuals happen to be males. So there is a very small component of females in this category as well.
But as the visa existed in its earliest format, the spouses would not be allowed to have a social security number. They could not have an independent financial bank account. If their so-called husband did not want them to, say even get a driving license, they could not. So everything was controlled by the spouse, and so the whole structure was very problematic. Or the entire sort of control, you can say falls into the hands of the male. And it almost mimics, almost exactly the structure which existed for Victorian women. And these women, they did not really understand the nitty gritty. It's like when an immigrant, like you said, now that your husband's here, you kind of understand what the laws are, whether a person can work or not, and things like that. So it's not anybody who was duping these women. It's just that the entire law of the land was laid out in a certain fashion. So they didn't know that when they would come to America, they wouldn't be able to work. And this is just the turn of the century. 1990 is still, not too far away.
I was attracted to my husband, he was also attracted to my intelligence. So many of these women, they were as skilled and as qualified as their spouses. Came here and realized that, hey, I cannot work at all. Now, you say that to somebody who's like a lawyer, a doctor or somebody who needs that stipulated structure of office, right? You can't expect a lawyer to practice from home if they're not legally even permitted. So when they came, they were just like, oh. And when you come to the country, everything's new and beautiful. It's America. Everybody comes back home and thinks, oh, wow. You're married to this guy in America, so it looks like a fairy tale. You're also enjoying your first few years of married life so you don't want to break that sort of myth even in front of your family and friends until the rigmarole of daily life starts dawning upon you. Your spouse is pretty much always away at work, so what are you going to do? And so most of these South Asian women, when that happened to them and they turned around and told their families that this is absolute hell. What am I supposed to do? Because as immigrants, you're very isolated just because of the way you speak, the way you dress. If you're not a very outgoing person, it becomes even more difficult for you. As an adult, it's just tough to make friends. So there's isolation that's happening there.
And then if you have this restriction that you're not allowed to work, then what are you going to do? They were forced to become housewives. They were forced to become, almost like fill your idle hours with caregiving duties. Now in my case, there's this little bit of a twist. Because I came in 2013, and the law changed in 2015. When I was coming in, my husband told me categorically because he knew what it meant. Even though he wanted me to give writing a shot, he was like, wait a sec. How will you write? Because the law still existed the way I explained it to you. So he's like, okay, fine. You'll come in, but on the Spousal Visa. We'll figure things out. You go back as a student and keep your track independent of me. There is no way I want to control what you do. Everything was tied to him. So I did not have a social security number back then. My bank account and his bank account was like, everything was like that. And we actually went initially through that period where I actually felt that he can actually look at how I'm spending my money. Oh, no, wait a second, it's his money. So I started experiencing some of those things where you start feeling almost like a little kid who has to take permission from the spouse, almost as if the spouse is the dad, like as the father.
We started getting into these very sticky situations where he didn't like what he was doing. He's like, you need to go back, come back as a student. But first, get into the finest program for yourself. If writing is what you want to do, get into the best journalism school. So that's what I did. As soon as I came in, my focus was I have to get into the best programs. Newhouse School of Public Communications is ranked as highest in Columbia. I was able to get into some really good schools of journalism close to about 10 to 12, because he did not hold me back when it came to money. And he was like, I want you to give your dreams a shot. And also, essentially, he was never there at home. He is constantly on the go. He's a very empathetic doctor because of what happened to his family. So when he is not able to save a patient, it crushes him. I've seen what happens to him. So for him, it's like being married to a soldier. Even if you're in the middle of an argument, if his phone rings, I know I have to shut up because he needs his space to focus on the patient. In 2015, the law changed. And a few of these immigrant spouses, as long as the husband has fulfilled certain steps in the green card application process will be given the employment card. So that is a huge relief.
But I'm already on an independent track, and I know that this law has recently changed so I'm feeling amazing. I'm feeling confident. I started getting great internships and great places in New York City. We were initially in Detroit. He was in Detroit, and we moved to New York. For me, he moved to New York because he knew New York had more opportunities for me. And I was doing well until it was a time like this, it was election year. I think as immigrants, we learn how to work really hard. So I worked very hard because we're not from here. We may not understand how people are perceiving us. So it's not that I wasn't a great culture fit, but I was threatening one of my seniors, my immediate senior. I just didn't know because I'm just trying to do my best. I had a great working relationship with the CEO, great relationship with my editor in chief. But I was really getting on her nerves, the person in between. And I got played, I got gaslighted. And before I knew it, she started misrepresenting what my writing was really about. So a person who recently got a bonus in a couple of months is turned into something that she's not right, and the narrative was in her hats because she'd worked longer.
I faced a very difficult time of being played and pushed into a corner, which can happen to anyone even if you're not an immigrant. And I lost my job. I got fired because I totally walked into the trap that she laid for me. And I found myself in a situation where time was running out on my visa, because I was in a student visa that extended to him something which is called an OPT, which allows you to work. I had to figure out a way to get somebody to sponsor me within that time. But I was completely ready to go because that's what I wanted. Here, the law had changed. So I was like, but there's the Spousal Visa, and the Spousal Visa can allow me to work now. That would have allowed me to stay in America. Otherwise, I would have to go back, literally. So I figure all this out in the middle of a very stressful work situation. And working in Manhattan is tough, especially if it's your first job.
Heather Nelson: That's just like the movies then.
Varuni Sinha: It was like (inaudible). It was totally like that. And I was like that. That character actually felt what it was like to be in her shoes. And in the middle of all this, I'm figuring out everything. I got on the Spousal Visa not knowing that the Spousal Visa had this history. And now I know, which I explained to you. Now I understand what my husband was trying to tell me, why he told me categorically to keep an independent track. But when a law has existed for that long, stigma is associated with the H4, the Spousal Visa. Up until now, because when I was going to interviews, when I was getting all these opportunities, nobody would get spooked if I told them that this is the visa I have. Because I never used the term the Spousal Visa. But now, every time they would hear that, they're like, I would never hear back from the company. And so I just kept applying to jobs. Applying to jobs became my job, and I'm just trying everything. It's not that I sat online and just kept on doing online applications. No, I was networking. I was trying to reach out to my classmates who were working in the industry. I was doing all kinds of things, informational interviews. I tried everything. But this was one of the factors that every time they would hear the word H4 or a spousal visa, they would just shut the door.
Heather Nelson: It's not because they're afraid that you at any chance go back.
Varuni Sinha: I think because the spouses were not allowed for such a long time. Like companies, they're trying to make things easy for themselves. Why do they need employers? They're trying to solve a problem. They need somebody who can, as an employee, come and solve that problem. Don't want more paperwork, and they already know that. And you're right. The Spousal Visa, when it was granted initially, it wasn't for blocks of five years, or long durations of time. It was for shorter durations of time. And for the other people who would hire immigrants, they were well aware that spouses weren't allowed to work for such a long time. So now, you're getting into the territory of like, what do you mean you have a spousal visa? Do you have a work authorization? So it's getting into too much work on their end. That is what I figured was part of the problem. The other part of the problem was employers are not allowed to ask legally. You're not supposed to. So if someone asks me that question, which I was asked, I could actually turn it around and say, I'm sorry, you're not supposed to ask. As long as I'm legally employed, able to work in America, that's all you need to know. But you only understand that after you've been through that entire period of rejection.
And for me, it wasn't just one year or two years. One turned to two, two turned to three. Three started going on four. And now, I'm getting extremely depressed because I'm an intelligent person who needs to use her intelligence to do something destructive with her time. And that's when I hit a very dark period in my marriage and in my life where it just didn't make sense to kind of exist. And so on the one hand, I found myself in this beautiful apartment. We lived in Long Island City back then, which faces Manhattan. So it's a very luxurious apartment. You step outside, you can see the Chrysler Building. You have the money. So people back home, including my own family, why is she crying? What is so tragic that you're married to a doctor in New York City? What is the tragedy, really? So you cannot like it, I lost all my friends. In fact, I'd lost them as soon as I'd married this guy because I was seen as somebody who has everything, because that's what it looks like on the outside. And now, after years of therapy, I knew that I was terrified to stand on that balcony because I wanted to jump. And I only understand that very clearly now. And during that period, I turned completely against my husband who was still trying to get me out of that situation. I would wait for him to leave for the hospital. And as soon as he'd go initially, I would just go off to sleep. But then I started drinking, and I would just drink every day. He would come back home and he'd find me in a situation where I would be full of rage against him because in this sort of a situation of being in a spousal visa. I am in my head blaming him.
He's the spouse. He's responsible for what my life has become. And he still tried really hard. He was like, go to evening school, learn a completely different skill set. Maybe writing is not that easy to break into. Try your hand at programming, coding. I'm like, how much more do you want me to study? Because honestly, I was teaching at the university back home. I already had a career before that in advertising. I had come back and started from zero in a new country. I'd still managed to get some really good opportunities. So you tell that person to go back to school again, like it almost feels humiliating in that situation because I already felt like a child who needs to impress her dad in this case. I was looking at my husband as though he's my father, and that's when my dad's words came back. They haunted me again.
Heather Nelson: How long were you in this space of depression and isolation?
Varuni Sinha: This was three to four years prior to the lockdown. So I experienced what many people experienced during the lockdown, just prior to that. But when I hit the darkest period, that's when things started suddenly changing, which I really want to share with you.
Heather Nelson: Share away. I know I do not want to relate this, but I have to bring it up because this is my perception. The only thing that I have to go on is 90 Day Fiance. Me and my husband watch it. It's kind of silly to even admit that, but it's so interesting to hear these stories, though. But the way they tell them is very different from what actually goes on. It's all about the drama and who could be the most crazy or whatever. Literally, women out there suffering like your story. It blows my mind, but I cannot wait to hear what happens. Because obviously, you're not in that space anymore, and you're doing amazing things. But what was that turning point for you?
Varuni Sinha: We hit a point where my husband realized that he could not save me, and only I could save myself. So he said that he and I needed distance from each other, and he was getting an opportunity in Los Angeles. He's like, I'm gonna go. I'm not leaving you. But at that time, it did feel like he was saying that he's going to leave me. And he said, this is where you can stay, which is the same apartment. If you want to downsize, you can go to a different place in the city. But just imagine that you already have a job, the rent is paid, electricity, everything's paid. But you have to figure out what you would do now with your time. Only you can answer this question. Because if I stay with you any longer, we cannot save our marriage. We can't save our relationship. And I'm very sorry that I allowed this visa to become such a huge issue. I should have worked harder, maybe published more papers.
This guy's working insane hours publishing. And this is something that immigrants do experience. They're trying their best. And people in this sort of category, it can take them anywhere between 12 years to 150 years. That's how long the queue is for each one to have a green card, and to citizenship. So you're basically stuck in that, and you could never get it. And he apologized that this is what he'd done. It's really not his fault. And he goes away. And before he goes away, he gets me a therapy dog. So he figures out that a golden lab is very good in terms of a therapy dog. He trains the dog. He leaves the dog with me, but he goes away. I think that's very courageous of him. I wouldn't be able to do that to my own child if I saw that my child was suffering the way I was. And he was like, you'll figure it out. And I didn't know what to do. Because now, I'm stuck in this house, in this nice apartment. What am I supposed to do? Because now, the only person I could get angry at is gone. And that's when you're forced to take complete responsibility for whatever it is.
When all these spiritual gurus talk about, we create our own reality. What they're basically saying is just 100% take accountability for the world, or the space, or the reality you find yourself in. So I was like, I have to just make sense of this. But initially, I was just too scared to be inside the apartment, so I just started walking. I started walking on the streets of New York, mostly Brooklyn. And as I started walking, and also my dog, he's a very active dog. He wouldn't let me stay there. Otherwise, he would start chewing through my shoes. So I started walking. And one hour, two hours, three hours walking like a lunatic and just walking. And randomly, people on the streets, they would start approaching me and talking to me. This is not something I can explain, because I didn't approach them. It would initially start off with very bizarre conversations where somebody would just comment on my hair or comment on something as simple as my dog. But then, there were other bizarre conversations, like somebody told me how they lost all their weight. A really good looking guy told me how he used to be really fat and lost all his weight by smelling his shit. And so he knew that what he was putting in his body was not right. And so as the smell of the shit got better, he knew that he was eating better. So it would start with that, and then the guy would be talking to me for like 30 minutes, then 40 minutes. And before I know it, I'm like, what am I even doing? What am I supposed to do? Am I supposed to stand here and listen to these people go on? And that's what happened to me.
It would be at a frequency that I cannot explain. It's like my extreme loneliness perhaps took me to a place where something opened up inside me. I was attracted to these people and their deepest painful stories. And it wasn't like I was Brandan Stanton going out with a camera, Humans of New York. No. They would always walk up to me. And before I knew it, they told me about their marriage, their intimate relationships. How somebody lost their dog because somebody got into their house and stole their dog. How my dog reminds them of exactly the Roger that they had at home. And then from there, he starts telling me other things about their life. In the news, as I'm watching the news every day, I saw that America was exactly where we find ourselves right now where there are two camps where people are fighting each other, and nobody trusts each other. But out on the streets, as I'm walking the streets and meeting the common man or the common woman, they're just like me. They're perhaps struggling harder than I am. They actually have real problems because they don't even know where they're going to get their money from. And I was able to see that if I'm crying about not having a job, because when we are in pain, our pain is usually caused by one little thing that is not working out right, and we forget about all the blessings. And here, I'm seeing people who don't have anybody in their lives. I didn't just meet people from one race or ethnicity. I met white people, black people, Mexican people, and then I started talking to a lot of homeless people on the streets, and people who don't have anything at all. They have the biggest hearts. They can tell you things that would make you cry.
And so my entire worldview started changing, and I started healing by talking to these strangers on the streets. And my only job during that time, I remember that I would come down, come back home, and I would write down these scribbles. I would call them strangers on the street, and I created a page called Married in New York because it was like a satire on who I was. But on that page, I would share these everyday experiences. And the page back then started growing organically. And it grew, I think to about 3,000 without any extra promotions or anything. And people would check with me. If I didn't post something, they would be like, hey, you're okay? What happened on the streets today? So it was such a beautiful experience that started filling me with hope, love and healing. And I made the decision then that I wanted to do something with my time.
I started volunteering at the Bowery Mission because I wanted to work for the homeless. And they called me and were like, we think you might be more suited to teach our kids. The kids in certain poorer neighborhoods of the city. So I found myself in Harlem teaching these kids art and creative writing. I continued to go there for another two or three years. But honestly, I wasn't teaching them. The kids were teaching me. The kids were healing me further because they just made me a part of their world. And I was so excited every time I would catch the subway and had to go across. It was like one and a half hours or something where I was full of excitement. And completely, it's not just what the love that they healed me with, but also the way they spoke, the way they played games. They taught me more about American English, because I used to write in British English. In India, we speak a version of English, which is British English. And so blending in with these kids allowed me to learn more in terms of assimilating the culture of America more than I could have learned at a publishing house. So that's precisely what made my husband also see that, hey, something's happening with you.
He was worried that I'm losing it because I'm out on the streets talking to crazy people. And he's a doctor, so he was concerned. But he's like, this is amazing. What you're doing is really cool. And at that time, he was trying to insert this sort of idea into my head that you need to write your story, because it's such an interesting story. But when he comes back in the year 2020, and that's when covid happens. I had to learn to face my fear, the real fear of losing my husband because he had to go into cases of a lot of New Yorkers. He worked for a lot of poor hospitals in Brooklyn where a lot of African American men, young men were dying in huge numbers because they were essential workers, and they were getting strokes as a result of covid, the virus. Initially, my husband had to go in without adequate protection, because you were just thrown into that situation. There weren't proper masks in the first few weeks. It was a real nightmare for us because we had to sit down and actually talk about what it would mean if he dies. Prepare a will, prepare step by step of what you're going to do if that happens. His colleagues had died because of overexposure. But that's also the time when I start writing my manuscript. Because he tells me, you and I could actually die. So if you don't write your story now, you'll never write it. And no one will ever know. So I had an actual deadline in terms of depth. I became very serious about writing my book during that period, because I knew that what he was talking about was not a joke. It was actually possible.
Heather Nelson: It's crazy how sometimes just not having a plan, or not having an agenda and just opening your world to see what it gets, what attaches to you. That is such a cool thing for you to experience dark space, and you're like, I'm just gonna go on all the things that come your way. I got chills thinking about it. That's such a cool thing. It's interesting that you say that you have that aura about you that people just tell you their life stories. This is what happened to me, and this is why the podcast even happened. It even thought of because I would go to these meetings with my clients, and it was like, we feel like you're our best friend. You have this personality that absorbs it all, and you just let them be. And people tell me the craziest things all the time, and people trust me. I'm like, it's such a cool feeling to have. And you're like, it's like a lust for power.
Varuni Sinha: And I know that you feel you understand what I'm talking about, because I felt like you do feel like you're a magnet for all these interesting elements in people's lives. And the other thing which I noticed was, in that moment that I was sitting and listening to these individuals, there was no judgment in my heart. So when you have zero judgment, it's like you have a full acceptance of where that human being is coming from. And it would not happen on days that I thought that I was full of that same old anger or trying to blame somebody for my situation, which happens when we're in pain. We want to pin that blame on someone. Whenever the negative feelings were inside of me, I would not ever chance upon strangers. It's only when I feel open, that's the only way I can explain it. Open and full of love, that's all I can say. That happened. It still happens, but not as frequently. Because as soon as I started writing my book, it somehow shut down. I focused on, okay, I need to create a very good story. Because essentially, I was trained as a writer. So my entire worldview became inward looking. That portal started shutting down, so I can't predict when it will happen. Now it does, but not at the frequency that I experienced it back then.
Heather Nelson: And your book is called Golden Handcuffs. And so there is the book about these stories that people told you, or is it about your whole experience?
Varuni Sinha: It's everything. Basically, they're close to about at least half a million, if not more immigrant spouses who are living in America right now and too ashamed of the gilded cage that they find themselves in. I have stumbled across 20, 30 anonymous Facebook groups on which this visa is actually called the depression visa, and it's really heart wrenching. Because when I see their feeds and I see what they're talking about, I know what it's like to be in their shoes. I just want to somehow virtually go across and just give them a tight hug. If I could reach out to these women, they would have hope. Because that's exactly the place that I found myself in. But it's also not just for immigrants. It's for anyone, because I'm seeing this in the people who are picking up the book. As soon as you go on Amazon, the first four chapters are free. Once anyone reads the first four chapters, whether they're a male, a female, or whatever their background is, people are just falling into the love story. It's like a really relatable love story, and it moves at a pace that I'm surprised by how a guy who works 60 years old in advertising loves it. My husband, who reads a lot of good stuff, finished the book in three days. So I'm seeing all kinds of people from different backgrounds who have experienced, oftentimes, that painful moment in their life where you hit a point and you think that there's no way you can survive beyond this. You could lose a limb. You could get cancer. You could actually be deceived very badly by a family member or a friend. And so when people go through such experiences, what gives them hope to believe in humanity once again. That is what they will find. They'll find love, hope and healing in this book.
Heather Nelson: I love that you took your passion for writing. Obviously, that was your thing. It just wasn't the time in your life that that came about. But then you opened yourself up to this other opportunity, and now you wrote a book. You know what I mean? The whole writing thing came back, circled around, because it wasn't the same time at the time. And now, look at what you're doing because of that. It's such a cool story. What do you think the whole visa process is, a hot mess, and where do you think it's gonna go? And are you doing anything to be a part of the change?
Varuni Sinha: The way I could be a part of the change was being absolutely 100% open about my story. I think it's the reason why I'm actually the first Indian woman who's written a memoir about it. There are Indian women who have spoken about it. But in an autobiography, I'll take my readers into everything that marriage is about. We think it's a fairy tale. I'll take them to spaces where I refuse to even be in the same bedroom with my husband, because you do reach that point. Basically, by unmasking everything about what I went through, I'm trying to show them that this is not your fault. This is not anyone's fault. The whole system, so to say, can make an individual feel so powerless. And also by showing my life and as much nakedness, I'm actually trying to also show that when you're that broken, you can still slowly also figure out ways to piece your life back together. Because I used being a housewife to actually build my entire career. I actually used everything that was to my advantage, which is time, my husband's schedule and my household chores to kind of discipline myself as a writer when I got up in the morning. So writing a book is tough because you just don't write it in one go. I've gone through 12 renditions, 12 different manuscripts, and I've worked with some really big editors who have completely given me very harsh feedback and things like that.
So for me to get into the discipline of writing without a structure of a job was like, in the morning, my husband gets up and out the door at 7:30 am. I have to get up half an hour before him and get 350 to 500 words out of the page because I was in a hot mess. I learned from a woman who came and taught me how to clean my own apartment because I looked like somebody who couldn't take care of herself in that state of depression. A woman from Mexico, she taught me that when you're focusing on one thing like cleaning a plate, you just focus on that thing at a time. And so when you're folding a shirt, like a piece of garment, you're just focusing on that piece of garment. Then you move on to the next. And that's exactly what I applied to my writing. So if I'm focusing on 100 words right now, that's all I'm focusing on. Because writing and then pitching to publishing houses, and then going beyond rejection, which again, I had to meet more rejection, can get very overwhelming. So the only way you can bring yourself back to the moment is if you do one thing at a time. So she was essentially teaching me how to do meditation through household chores, which I applied to my writing. So you can think of your situation as a complete prison, or you can use that situation to liberate yourself as well. And that happened to me during this time. I was already on the path to recovery. What had happened was we were living in a part of Brooklyn, which is dominated by African Americans and my dog.
It was the day or two after George Floyd had happened. I was all very impacted by that as well. And because of my rage, all of those emotions come back to haunt me again. I could not pay attention to how my dog was walking on the streets, and so I accidentally pulled in such a way that his entire harness and the leash came off. He was completely naked, and he just ran straight into traffic and would have died. And these four to five random guys, they jumped into the street, and nobody does that in New York. In New York, everyone's for themselves. They saved my dog's life. It was a very traumatic day. And when I went back home, I jolted myself. I was like, what are you doing? You have to learn how to control your anger in a split second. He would have been battered by oncoming traffic.
I realized that I need to take stock of everything good and bad that had happened to me as an immigrant in America, and I actually made a list. And when you make a list, and anyone sits down to make a list of the good versus the bad, they will realize that the mind tends to gravitate towards the bad. But the list of goods is always longer. When I had that realization, I found the story of Richard Phillips. An African American man who had been put behind bars for a crime that he did not commit for 46 long years. And in order to deal with the trauma of being behind the bars, every day, he would get up in the morning and would make a watercolor painting. Today, he's a free and a famous man. But in order to survive that trauma, every day, he got up and he painted. So he became my inspiration. Richard Phillips is the reason why I was like, I'm going to get up in the morning and write so many words. So it started off with 300 words, then 400 words, then 1000. And that's how I was able to finish this book.
Heather Nelson: How long did it take you from start to finish?
Varuni Sinha: The whole process has been seven years long because of all the renditions of the different manuscripts, working with a really good editor. She herself has written close to six, seven books. She's a New York Times bestseller. Her name's Amanda Turner. Then I worked with her editor to further strengthen the narrative. We had to go pitching your story as well to literary agents. So there was a lot. It's not just about writing it, but then you have to also be open to criticism. That you actually pull it out of the narrative, which is very strong, and people actually enjoy reading.
Heather Nelson: I cannot wait to read it. Literally, I cannot wait to read it. What's next for you? You've already done and gone through so much. What's to come for you?
Varuni Sinha: I think I've already finished like 70% of my next book. I'm attempting to write a fantasy which is difficult, but it's something I've jumped into. I have been able to develop skills as a writer without any structure, without any external discipline. So I think one of the things I want to do is create a resource for writers. That's a project that I'm working on. I've also learned programming. So I'm trying to see if I can learn how to combine tech and writing to create something for artists and writers, and to deal with my own issues of depression, mood variations and things like that. I started painting. I have always painted in India as well. I used to paint with my fingers, but I started painting using a technique of fine lines. So one line after another line, after another line. And it mimics these folk artists in India. And they were women who were doing this who were never allowed to work. They became business women who sell these paintings and make a huge profit out of it. They're called Madhubani paintings. I'm quite interested in how I can help reach out to other women in America and teach them this technique of meditative painting. I still haven't figured it out, but it really helped me. People say that you should do meditation. That's really good. I meditate and go to therapy on a routine basis, because those are my anchors. This style of painting has really helped me so I want to use the things that I know in writing, in art, and offer them as tools to individuals who are struggling with some of the challenges of modern day.
Heather Nelson: You and her husband are still together, is he back in New York? Are you guys back together?
Varuni Sinha: Yes, we are. It was very tough. We had a very harrowing experience. I think that's the other thing people should know. Love stories are only worth the love if you can actually see the ugly in each other and still have the strength to love. Nobody should go through abuse. Abuse is not great at all. But sometimes, people's lives are very hard and very painful. And I think that's one thing which is so important that you cannot just plug in and plug out the way. We've created this swipe culture of dating that's not love. You have to persist, and that means you'll have to see the other person in this mess and still believe that they can come through.
Heather Nelson: Good. It just blows my mind this whole visa process and how they make it so hard for immigrants to be here. I know so many amazing people, including my husband who work really freaking hard in this country to be here. And you see so many people who were born here and not. It's really heartbreaking, and I really hope for a change. I hope that we can get past this and make it easier for people to be here and live their dreams. To be happy and flourish. And so I'm praying for a miracle for everybody. But thank you so much. I am so inspired by your story. There just needs to be more women out there doing amazing things, embracing what they love and opening their hearts and their bodies to what comes for them. And I just thank you. Thank you so much for being here.
Varuni Sinha: Thank you, Heather, for having me.